Chamber
Plenary, 07 Mar 2007
07 Mar 2007 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Christmas Day and New Year's Day Trading (Scotland) Bill:<br />Stage 3
I pay tribute to Karen Whitefield. The Liberal Democrats in Parliament share her desire to keep Christmas day and new year's day as special days that are not general trading days.
There is a range of views about the bill. Some Liberal Democrats think that the bill goes too far while others think that it does not go far enough, but the vast majority of members of our group do not—for a number of reasons—favour the inclusion of new year's day in the bill. We think that there should be a choice for consumers and employees and we think that the bill's approach is inconsistent in that it would not provide a level playing field for shop workers or other people who have to work on new year's day. We prefer the voluntary approach, so we welcome amendments 1 to 3.
I am an Edinburgh member of the Scottish Parliament and I argue against the inclusion of new year's day in the bill predominantly because I want Edinburgh's winter festival, which has suffered setbacks in recent years, to prosper and to go from strength to strength. I would be unhappy about being party to a legislative change that contributed to sending a message that Edinburgh is closed for business at one of the most popular times of year for people to visit the city. My view chimes with comments that were made by VisitScotland and other tourism bodies.
I welcome amendment 2, which would allow us to consider the issue in greater detail. When the Justice 2 Committee considered the bill, it was clear that there was a lack of robust data on both sides of the argument. As the minister and other speakers have acknowledged, there is a need for more work.
Amendments 1 to 3 offer a commonsense approach, which acknowledges that in Scotland Christmas day is special for families—people of faith and people of none. That is a view that a clear majority of members support. Amendment 2 will allow Parliament to move forward and to acknowledge the rights of shop workers and the needs of business. I congratulate the Scottish Retail Consortium on engaging in serious and meaningful discussion on the possibility of a voluntary code that would mean that no shop workers in certain types of premises were forced to work on new year's day. We are putting the ball back in the employers' court; they can voluntarily end pressure on, and coercion of, workers in the retail industry—subtle or otherwise. I worked in the retail industry in my younger days and have family members who work in the retail industry, so I can assure members that the pressure that I am talking about is not imaginary.
The Liberal Democrats think that there are good reasons for pursuing a voluntary approach with businesses and unions, instead of legislating needlessly in respect of new year's day. A worker should be able to choose to say, "I do not want to work on new year's day" and workers should also not be compelled to work. The range of views in respect of retail mean that there would be great merit in further investigation of the impact on the economy and on family life of extending the provisions in section 1 to new year's day.
We are content that amendments 1 to 3 offer a way forward for people on all sides of the argument. The approach acknowledges the importance of a work-life balance—although many MSPs' families might think that we are the last people who should be lecturing anyone about that. The approach gives businesses the opportunity to voluntarily treat their staff fairly and it guarantees a Christmas day holiday for shop workers and the possibility of fairer arrangements for new year's day. Under the provisions of amendment 2, ministers could come back to Parliament if voluntary schemes do not materialise or work, or if reports suggest that a restriction of new year's day trading would benefit family life and would not have a negative economic impact. There would be full and proper consultation, not only of councils, businesses and workers, but of the tourism industry. Ministers could make an order on the matter if they thought that was necessary, without having to introduce primary legislation. The Liberal Democrat group supports amendments 1 to 3. I hope that all other members will do so.
There is a range of views about the bill. Some Liberal Democrats think that the bill goes too far while others think that it does not go far enough, but the vast majority of members of our group do not—for a number of reasons—favour the inclusion of new year's day in the bill. We think that there should be a choice for consumers and employees and we think that the bill's approach is inconsistent in that it would not provide a level playing field for shop workers or other people who have to work on new year's day. We prefer the voluntary approach, so we welcome amendments 1 to 3.
I am an Edinburgh member of the Scottish Parliament and I argue against the inclusion of new year's day in the bill predominantly because I want Edinburgh's winter festival, which has suffered setbacks in recent years, to prosper and to go from strength to strength. I would be unhappy about being party to a legislative change that contributed to sending a message that Edinburgh is closed for business at one of the most popular times of year for people to visit the city. My view chimes with comments that were made by VisitScotland and other tourism bodies.
I welcome amendment 2, which would allow us to consider the issue in greater detail. When the Justice 2 Committee considered the bill, it was clear that there was a lack of robust data on both sides of the argument. As the minister and other speakers have acknowledged, there is a need for more work.
Amendments 1 to 3 offer a commonsense approach, which acknowledges that in Scotland Christmas day is special for families—people of faith and people of none. That is a view that a clear majority of members support. Amendment 2 will allow Parliament to move forward and to acknowledge the rights of shop workers and the needs of business. I congratulate the Scottish Retail Consortium on engaging in serious and meaningful discussion on the possibility of a voluntary code that would mean that no shop workers in certain types of premises were forced to work on new year's day. We are putting the ball back in the employers' court; they can voluntarily end pressure on, and coercion of, workers in the retail industry—subtle or otherwise. I worked in the retail industry in my younger days and have family members who work in the retail industry, so I can assure members that the pressure that I am talking about is not imaginary.
The Liberal Democrats think that there are good reasons for pursuing a voluntary approach with businesses and unions, instead of legislating needlessly in respect of new year's day. A worker should be able to choose to say, "I do not want to work on new year's day" and workers should also not be compelled to work. The range of views in respect of retail mean that there would be great merit in further investigation of the impact on the economy and on family life of extending the provisions in section 1 to new year's day.
We are content that amendments 1 to 3 offer a way forward for people on all sides of the argument. The approach acknowledges the importance of a work-life balance—although many MSPs' families might think that we are the last people who should be lecturing anyone about that. The approach gives businesses the opportunity to voluntarily treat their staff fairly and it guarantees a Christmas day holiday for shop workers and the possibility of fairer arrangements for new year's day. Under the provisions of amendment 2, ministers could come back to Parliament if voluntary schemes do not materialise or work, or if reports suggest that a restriction of new year's day trading would benefit family life and would not have a negative economic impact. There would be full and proper consultation, not only of councils, businesses and workers, but of the tourism industry. Ministers could make an order on the matter if they thought that was necessary, without having to introduce primary legislation. The Liberal Democrat group supports amendments 1 to 3. I hope that all other members will do so.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
NPA
The next item of business is stage 3 of the Christmas Day and New Year's Day Trading (Scotland) Bill. In dealing with amendments, members should have copies ...
Section 1—Large shops not to open on Christmas Day or New Year's Day
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Group 1 is on the application of the bill to new year's day. Amendment 1, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 2 and 3.
The Minister for Justice (Cathy Jamieson):
Lab
The bill is an important measure that sets out to prohibit large shops from making retail sales on our two traditionally most important public holidays. Ther...
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
I acknowledge the minister's constructive comments. At stage 1, the Executive presented evidence that about 80 per cent of all shop workers will not fall wit...
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
As Mr Purvis has suggested, many shop workers will not be covered by the bill, such as those who work in small shops. That is a given and we understood that ...
Mr Stewart Maxwell (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
No one wants Christmas day and new year's day to become general trading days, and I agree with much of what the minister said in her opening remarks. The Jus...
Mrs Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab):
Lab
I still have concerns about the proposed voluntary code. Although I am not a member of the Justice 2 Committee, I sat through the evidence on the bill. The S...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
The Scottish Conservatives' position on the bill has been clear from the outset—I made it clear when Parliament debated the bill at stage 1. We do not have d...
The Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Allan Wilson):
Lab
Does Murdo Fraser agree that there is a difference between a person who works in an essential service or a continuous manufacturing process being contractual...
Murdo Fraser:
Con
The minister makes the argument for extending the bill to cover shops of all sizes and other industries. Why does the bill restrict trading only in particula...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I pay tribute to Karen Whitefield. The Liberal Democrats in Parliament share her desire to keep Christmas day and new year's day as special days that are not...
Mark Ballard (Lothians) (Green):
Green
It is clear that the case has not been made that Scotland will miss out on income if the largest stores cannot open on new year's day.Mary Mulligan clearly d...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
Why does the member think that it is okay to work in a small business but not in a big business on new year's day? I am in a quandary about that, because the...
Mark Ballard:
Green
The Scottish Grocers Federation clearly pointed out the difference between a family shop and a big business in which there is the potential for employees to ...
Colin Fox (Lothians) (SSP):
SSP
The Executive is in an utter mess over the bill. The minister told us that the bill is important in that it will prevent trading on Christmas day. She said t...
Mr David Davidson (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
It would have been nice if Mary Mulligan had attended the Justice 2 Committee and laid before it the evidence that she claims she has, identifying all the in...
Mrs Mulligan:
Lab
If Mr Davidson sees the bill as an infringement on trade, why is he happy to accept the measures for Christmas day, but not those for new year's day?
Mr Davidson:
Con
Very simply, we do not think that there should be a bill at all. There was no evidence that anybody, at this stage, wants to trade on Christmas day. The reta...
Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab):
Lab
Is it Mr Davidson's viewpoint that people do not want to trade on Christmas day, or are the Tories playing to the church vote that they think they might get ...
Mr Davidson:
Con
I am sorry, but given that I ran retail businesses that had to operate on Christmas day to provide a public service, I think that that comment is a wee bit m...
Members:
That is not the same thing.
Mr Davidson:
Con
I hear members shouting from a sedentary position, but what is the difference between somebody who works to meet a public need, whether related to health or ...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
How can the bill be a restraint on trade? The bill prevents large shops from opening on Christmas day, when they do not open anyway; the amendments would let...
Mr Davidson:
Con
Restraint on trade is the principle of the bill.
Mike Rumbles:
LD
It does not restrain—
Mr Davidson:
Con
I did not introduce the bill; Karen Whitefield did. The point is that, if there is no market, people will not open their premises. People should be left to r...
Karen Whitefield:
Lab
It is important to concentrate on the real issue before the Parliament this morning: the needs and rights of many of Scotland's shop workers, both those who ...
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP):
SSCUP
Does Karen Whitefield agree that everyone who votes for ordinary working people going to work on new year's day should be prepared to come in here on the sam...
Karen Whitefield:
Lab
I have some sympathy with that argument. It is unlikely that anyone in the chamber works on new year's day or Christmas day. We take that for granted, as do ...