Chamber
Plenary, 07 Mar 2007
07 Mar 2007 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Christmas Day and New Year's Day Trading (Scotland) Bill:<br />Stage 3
As Mr Purvis has suggested, many shop workers will not be covered by the bill, such as those who work in small shops. That is a given and we understood that at stage 1. However, I state clearly that that does not mean that we should do nothing with the bill. Amendments 1, 2 and 3 are designed to ensure that further work will be done. I make it clear that they come as a package. Although we want to gather further information, to analyse it and to report back to Parliament before taking a final view, the amendments are designed to enshrine in statute both Christmas day and new year's day.
We are sending out a clear message that we expect the retail industry to heed what Parliament is saying about its having a social as well as an economic responsibility. We expect the trade unions and various other interests to work with us to gather information. If it appears to the Executive that people are defying the will of Parliament, there is no doubt that we will use the powers that we will take in the bill. If amendments 1, 2 and 3 are agreed to, Parliament will send out a message today that further work will be done and that, if it seems to us that any sector of the industry intends to flout the will of Parliament, we will use the powers in the bill.
It is important to recognise that amendments 1, 2 and 3 come as a package, so it is important that both amendment 1 and amendment 2 be agreed to this morning. Amendment 3 will make a consequential change to the long title of the bill. Parliament should note that the amendments will require ministers to give reasons for concluding that an order to enact the powers for which the bill provides is necessary. It is important to point out that those could be reasons of principle, as well as reasons deriving from empirical evidence regarding the economic impact and the social impact on family life of trading on new year's day.
We have before us a package of amendments that represent the best possible way forward to protect everyone's interests, to keep Christmas and new year's day special and to give the trade unions and business an opportunity to work together to ensure that our aspirations are put into practice. Amendments 1, 2 and 3 will ensure that, if those aspirations are flouted, we can use the powers for which the bill provides without introducing further primary legislation.
I move amendment 1.
We are sending out a clear message that we expect the retail industry to heed what Parliament is saying about its having a social as well as an economic responsibility. We expect the trade unions and various other interests to work with us to gather information. If it appears to the Executive that people are defying the will of Parliament, there is no doubt that we will use the powers that we will take in the bill. If amendments 1, 2 and 3 are agreed to, Parliament will send out a message today that further work will be done and that, if it seems to us that any sector of the industry intends to flout the will of Parliament, we will use the powers in the bill.
It is important to recognise that amendments 1, 2 and 3 come as a package, so it is important that both amendment 1 and amendment 2 be agreed to this morning. Amendment 3 will make a consequential change to the long title of the bill. Parliament should note that the amendments will require ministers to give reasons for concluding that an order to enact the powers for which the bill provides is necessary. It is important to point out that those could be reasons of principle, as well as reasons deriving from empirical evidence regarding the economic impact and the social impact on family life of trading on new year's day.
We have before us a package of amendments that represent the best possible way forward to protect everyone's interests, to keep Christmas and new year's day special and to give the trade unions and business an opportunity to work together to ensure that our aspirations are put into practice. Amendments 1, 2 and 3 will ensure that, if those aspirations are flouted, we can use the powers for which the bill provides without introducing further primary legislation.
I move amendment 1.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
NPA
The next item of business is stage 3 of the Christmas Day and New Year's Day Trading (Scotland) Bill. In dealing with amendments, members should have copies ...
Section 1—Large shops not to open on Christmas Day or New Year's Day
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Group 1 is on the application of the bill to new year's day. Amendment 1, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 2 and 3.
The Minister for Justice (Cathy Jamieson):
Lab
The bill is an important measure that sets out to prohibit large shops from making retail sales on our two traditionally most important public holidays. Ther...
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
I acknowledge the minister's constructive comments. At stage 1, the Executive presented evidence that about 80 per cent of all shop workers will not fall wit...
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
As Mr Purvis has suggested, many shop workers will not be covered by the bill, such as those who work in small shops. That is a given and we understood that ...
Mr Stewart Maxwell (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
No one wants Christmas day and new year's day to become general trading days, and I agree with much of what the minister said in her opening remarks. The Jus...
Mrs Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab):
Lab
I still have concerns about the proposed voluntary code. Although I am not a member of the Justice 2 Committee, I sat through the evidence on the bill. The S...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
The Scottish Conservatives' position on the bill has been clear from the outset—I made it clear when Parliament debated the bill at stage 1. We do not have d...
The Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Allan Wilson):
Lab
Does Murdo Fraser agree that there is a difference between a person who works in an essential service or a continuous manufacturing process being contractual...
Murdo Fraser:
Con
The minister makes the argument for extending the bill to cover shops of all sizes and other industries. Why does the bill restrict trading only in particula...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
I pay tribute to Karen Whitefield. The Liberal Democrats in Parliament share her desire to keep Christmas day and new year's day as special days that are not...
Mark Ballard (Lothians) (Green):
Green
It is clear that the case has not been made that Scotland will miss out on income if the largest stores cannot open on new year's day.Mary Mulligan clearly d...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
Why does the member think that it is okay to work in a small business but not in a big business on new year's day? I am in a quandary about that, because the...
Mark Ballard:
Green
The Scottish Grocers Federation clearly pointed out the difference between a family shop and a big business in which there is the potential for employees to ...
Colin Fox (Lothians) (SSP):
SSP
The Executive is in an utter mess over the bill. The minister told us that the bill is important in that it will prevent trading on Christmas day. She said t...
Mr David Davidson (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
It would have been nice if Mary Mulligan had attended the Justice 2 Committee and laid before it the evidence that she claims she has, identifying all the in...
Mrs Mulligan:
Lab
If Mr Davidson sees the bill as an infringement on trade, why is he happy to accept the measures for Christmas day, but not those for new year's day?
Mr Davidson:
Con
Very simply, we do not think that there should be a bill at all. There was no evidence that anybody, at this stage, wants to trade on Christmas day. The reta...
Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab):
Lab
Is it Mr Davidson's viewpoint that people do not want to trade on Christmas day, or are the Tories playing to the church vote that they think they might get ...
Mr Davidson:
Con
I am sorry, but given that I ran retail businesses that had to operate on Christmas day to provide a public service, I think that that comment is a wee bit m...
Members:
That is not the same thing.
Mr Davidson:
Con
I hear members shouting from a sedentary position, but what is the difference between somebody who works to meet a public need, whether related to health or ...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
How can the bill be a restraint on trade? The bill prevents large shops from opening on Christmas day, when they do not open anyway; the amendments would let...
Mr Davidson:
Con
Restraint on trade is the principle of the bill.
Mike Rumbles:
LD
It does not restrain—
Mr Davidson:
Con
I did not introduce the bill; Karen Whitefield did. The point is that, if there is no market, people will not open their premises. People should be left to r...
Karen Whitefield:
Lab
It is important to concentrate on the real issue before the Parliament this morning: the needs and rights of many of Scotland's shop workers, both those who ...
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP):
SSCUP
Does Karen Whitefield agree that everyone who votes for ordinary working people going to work on new year's day should be prepared to come in here on the sam...
Karen Whitefield:
Lab
I have some sympathy with that argument. It is unlikely that anyone in the chamber works on new year's day or Christmas day. We take that for granted, as do ...