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Chamber

Plenary, 01 Mar 2007

01 Mar 2007 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Illegal Moneylenders
Godman, Trish Lab West Renfrewshire Watch on SPTV
Some time ago—in 2002, I think—I was fortunate enough to secure a members' business debate on loan sharks. The Daily Record was running a campaign to expose the squalid activities of loan sharks in poor communities throughout Scotland and I was pleased to support that campaign, as others were. I am pleased that I am taking part in today's debate, in which we can get an overview of the progress that has been made since then.

We all have a duty to ensure that everyone has access to the social security housing benefits to which they are entitled. Welfare rights officers, citizens advice bureaux and independent advice centres play a vital role in the process, and action against illegal moneylenders is vital. The full weight of the law must be brought to bear on loan sharks. From what the minister said, it is clear that we are beginning to address the cycle of disadvantage and poverty and to promote financial and social inclusion.

I am sure that members agree that there should be a cap on excessive interest rates. Irresponsible lending by companies that have no intention of seeing debts paid off but want to keep people in debt for ever and a day must be eliminated.

We must rid ourselves of the disgraceful notion that the poor will always be with us. Our aim should be to change an environment of debt and poverty into an environment of civil rights and empowerment.

Credit unions, such as the excellent credit union in Port Glasgow in my constituency, form one of the strongest defences against illegal moneylending. They have a positive history of service in disadvantaged communities. I was pleased that the minister explained "Unlocking the Potential—An Action Plan for the Credit Union Movement in Scotland", which aims to help grow that movement and ensure that financial services are available to everyone. A partnership with local authorities, Scottish banks, voluntary organisations and Communities Scotland can only be good news.

In Renfrewshire, a pilot scheme links money advice with the pathways to work programme—that, too, can only be good. There are also money advice pilots for people with mental health problems, people with learning difficulties, young people, lone parents and ethnic minorities, all of whom have been identified as facing barriers to accessing mainstream money advice. We should consider one-stop shops in which local people in need can obtain local government, voluntary organisation, Scottish Parliament and Westminster Parliament services.

Often, education is the solution that we apply to deeply rooted social problems. That is the right thing to do—certain practical programmes ought to be woven into the curriculum to help young people understand money, debt, benefits and credit issues and how to handle resources.

Where do bankers, small businesspeople, trade unions and voluntary and community organisations that are not directly involved with money advice stand on debt and loan sharks? The minister is going some way towards creating structures that will allow those people and organisations to engage constructively in the process and ensure that we eliminate the cancer of crippling personal debt. Unfortunately, Scotland does not have the experience of Canada or Australia, where credit unions are significant financial institutions. Work-based and community-based credit unions have an important role to play in an annual summit in Australia that calls together all the financial institutions, moneylending companies, banks and credit unions. The minister should consider that experience.

It has been said that there is an obvious link between loan sharks and drug dealers in many constituencies. Indeed, a loan shark is often also a drug dealer. I would like more action to be taken against their supplying drugs and their arrangements to extort even more money from the communities that they assault.

The fundamental issue in this debate is the Executive's determination to tackle poverty and assist people to get out of the grip of debt. A holistic approach to the problem that involves assisting people back to work, such as appropriate child care facilities that enable women to return to work, and investing in education, housing and health is necessary. We must find ways to let people who are in the grip of illegal moneylenders, who are terrified of their debts and who do not know what to do or where to go know that help is available and that something can be done. We must create a climate in which victims can come forward without fear of reprisals and be confident that prosecutions will be undertaken and convictions obtained.

We have come some way since the debate in 2002, but there is still a long way to go. I still fear that people's unopened bills will sit behind clocks and that when they think that they can do nothing else, they will walk down the street, go up a close and knock on a loan shark's door. However, I am encouraged by what the minister said. Illegal moneylenders are a cancer in our communities. We have started to address the problem, but there is still some way to go.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid): NPA
Good morning. The first item of business is a debate on motion S2M-5669, in the name of Des McNulty, on dealing with illegal moneylenders.
The Deputy Minister for Communities (Des McNulty): Lab
We are here this morning to discuss the problem of loan sharks. By "loan sharks" I mean those who break the law by lending money, often at extortionate inter...
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP): SNP
I join the minister in unreservedly condemning the actions of illegal moneylenders. How successful have we been, under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 or othe...
Des McNulty: Lab
I can give the member some figures in relation to the activities of the Glasgow illegal moneylending team. To date, 500 people have benefited from the prosec...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
Now there is an admission.
Des McNulty: Lab
I hope that the SNP will support us in opposition. We will invite our partners, such as Citizens Advice Scotland, Money Advice Scotland and local authorities...
Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP): SNP
In moving the amendment in my name, I say that we do not disagree with anything that the minister said. Clearly, the Executive is flagging up an issue that h...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con): Con
I very much welcome this important debate, which focuses on what has become a huge problem throughout the UK—namely, consumer debt and the activities of ille...
Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): LD
The debate is a worthwhile one. I am indebted to the Rev Graham Blount for all his work on the issue. He is known to all of us, and is the secretary of the c...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): Con
Is Mr Stone aware that much of the collection, intimidation and threatening behaviour that illegal moneylenders carry out is done on the streets and street c...
Mr Stone: LD
I take that point, but my point is that those activities are not overt, but covert. The police work that is involved has to be much more detailed and clever ...
Christine Grahame: SNP
From the member's comments, it seems that he supports the statement in the SNP amendment about the burden that legal moneylending puts on people. Is that the...
Mr Stone: LD
I am attracted to the SNP amendment, but the trouble is that I do not support separation, as I have said elsewhere. The motion and both amendments have merit...
Trish Godman (West Renfrewshire) (Lab): Lab
Some time ago—in 2002, I think—I was fortunate enough to secure a members' business debate on loan sharks. The Daily Record was running a campaign to expose ...
Ms Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP): SNP
The minister said that the debate is about loan sharks—illegal moneylenders who do not have a licence to lend money. However, does he believe that it is okay...
Members:
Oh, come on!
Ms White: SNP
Members can intervene if they wish.
Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): Lab
If we take the member's argument to its logical conclusion, is the SNP saying that it would make tenants pay for repairs to owner-occupiers' houses? Does she...
Ms White: SNP
Owner-occupiers are quite happy to pay for repairs to their homes, but they simply cannot afford to pay £7,000 within a year. I want the minister to clarify ...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green): Green
I welcome the opportunity to debate this issue. However, I struggled to find any information about issues such as credit unions and the debt arrangement sche...
Christine May (Central Fife) (Lab): Lab
Members have made some very good speeches on an issue that we are all concerned about, even if we have slightly different views on how to solve it.Unlike Pat...
Colin Fox (Lothians) (SSP): SSP
I wonder whether the minister is familiar with the lines that Woody Guthrie sang:"Some will rob you with a six-gunAnd some with a fountain pen."In the motion...
Mr Stone: LD
I mentioned it.
Colin Fox: SSP
Mr Stone also mentioned it, but he underplayed it, too. I will tell members why.Today, the Royal Bank of Scotland declared profits of £9.7 billion and, yeste...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab): Lab
I join the minister in condemning illegal moneylenders unreservedly. He was right to say that there are many threads in the strategy to tackle the issue. The...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): Con
Despite there being two amendments to the Executive's motion, the debate so far has been largely consensual. The Conservatives acknowledge the efforts that t...
Christine Grahame: SNP
I am interested to know how we can interfere with interest rates when we do not have the powers to do so in this Parliament. Is Mr Aitken suggesting that we ...
Bill Aitken: Con
No—that is not what I am suggesting. I was careful in what I said so that no one would think that I was suggesting that. I was simply pointing out arguments ...
Colin Fox: SSP
Perhaps Bill Aitken will unravel the great 21st century mystery of how the banks make their money. They lend at one rate and borrow at another. Is not that w...
Bill Aitken: Con
That was a rather simplistic argument. On the basis of the equation that Colin Fox advances, the money that the banks make has not been made, to any great ex...