Chamber
Plenary, 28 Feb 2007
28 Feb 2007 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Prostitution (Public Places) (Scotland) Bill
I welcome the opportunity to explain why I cannot support the bill.
Before voting on the bill, members need to ask themselves some key questions. Is the bill likely to reduce the ability of women involved in prostitution to access services such as drug counselling, sexual health services and those providing routes out of prostitution? Is the bill likely to increase the exploitation of women, the number of underage prostitutes or the trafficking of women for prostitution? Is the bill likely to increase the risk to street prostitutes of being seriously injured or killed by their clients? If, like me, members think that the answer to those questions is yes, they should not support the bill.
The bill is not likely to reduce the number of women who are involved in prostitution but it is likely to change the way in which they operate. I was a member of the Local Government Committee, in the first session of the Parliament, when it considered Margo MacDonald's first member's bill on prostitution tolerance zones and I was a member of the Local Government and Transport Committee, in the second session of the Parliament, when it considered her second member's bill on the subject. I pay tribute to the work that she did to raise awareness of this difficult issue. I was struck by the evidence that I heard during our consideration of those bills. Many women who are involved in street prostitution are the victims of violence or abuse and are still in abusive or exploitative relationships. Further, as somebody said, the funding of drugs habits—those of their partners as well as their own—was a major reason for women being on the streets. It was also clear that the practice of arresting women, fining them and, effectively, forcing them back on to the streets in order to raise the money to pay the fines makes no sense. That will not be changed by this legislation.
I recognise that, while the informal tolerance zone operated in Edinburgh—and also, in reality, in Glasgow—those women were offered greater access to health and social services and were able to protect themselves and help one another look out for the dangerous clients who they knew posed risks to them and keep an eye on things such as underage prostitution. However, those things were lost when the zone was lost.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. As the policy memorandum says, this bill started out with the aim of protecting communities from
"the nuisance, alarm or offence arising from street prostitution-related activities in or near public places"
and of redressing the balance between the purchaser and the seller.
Unfortunately, as amended at stage 2, the bill goes well beyond that policy intention and into the area of moral condemnation. I do not dispute that, at present, the balance is wrong. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that it is on the purchaser—the man—that the law should normally focus. However, the bill retains section 46 of the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982.
We should be primarily concerned with the issue of the causing of nuisance, alarm or offence rather than the issue of soliciting or loitering.
The expert group on prostitution that was set up by the Executive stated in its report that criminalising soliciting, of itself, does not contribute to protecting vulnerable people or addressing community concerns. We should bear that in mind and reject the bill, which goes down the wrong road.
Before voting on the bill, members need to ask themselves some key questions. Is the bill likely to reduce the ability of women involved in prostitution to access services such as drug counselling, sexual health services and those providing routes out of prostitution? Is the bill likely to increase the exploitation of women, the number of underage prostitutes or the trafficking of women for prostitution? Is the bill likely to increase the risk to street prostitutes of being seriously injured or killed by their clients? If, like me, members think that the answer to those questions is yes, they should not support the bill.
The bill is not likely to reduce the number of women who are involved in prostitution but it is likely to change the way in which they operate. I was a member of the Local Government Committee, in the first session of the Parliament, when it considered Margo MacDonald's first member's bill on prostitution tolerance zones and I was a member of the Local Government and Transport Committee, in the second session of the Parliament, when it considered her second member's bill on the subject. I pay tribute to the work that she did to raise awareness of this difficult issue. I was struck by the evidence that I heard during our consideration of those bills. Many women who are involved in street prostitution are the victims of violence or abuse and are still in abusive or exploitative relationships. Further, as somebody said, the funding of drugs habits—those of their partners as well as their own—was a major reason for women being on the streets. It was also clear that the practice of arresting women, fining them and, effectively, forcing them back on to the streets in order to raise the money to pay the fines makes no sense. That will not be changed by this legislation.
I recognise that, while the informal tolerance zone operated in Edinburgh—and also, in reality, in Glasgow—those women were offered greater access to health and social services and were able to protect themselves and help one another look out for the dangerous clients who they knew posed risks to them and keep an eye on things such as underage prostitution. However, those things were lost when the zone was lost.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. As the policy memorandum says, this bill started out with the aim of protecting communities from
"the nuisance, alarm or offence arising from street prostitution-related activities in or near public places"
and of redressing the balance between the purchaser and the seller.
Unfortunately, as amended at stage 2, the bill goes well beyond that policy intention and into the area of moral condemnation. I do not dispute that, at present, the balance is wrong. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that it is on the purchaser—the man—that the law should normally focus. However, the bill retains section 46 of the Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982.
We should be primarily concerned with the issue of the causing of nuisance, alarm or offence rather than the issue of soliciting or loitering.
The expert group on prostitution that was set up by the Executive stated in its report that criminalising soliciting, of itself, does not contribute to protecting vulnerable people or addressing community concerns. We should bear that in mind and reject the bill, which goes down the wrong road.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-5629, in the name of Tom McCabe, that Parliament agrees that the Prostitution (Public Places) (Scotland) ...
The Deputy Minister for Finance, Public Service Reform and Parliamentary Business (George Lyon):
LD
The Prostitution (Public Places) (Scotland) Bill is an important bill that will address an imbalance in the current law on street prostitution. At present, o...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
Order. I ask members who are leaving the chamber to do so quietly.
George Lyon:
LD
I am sure that members will agree that it cannot be right that the law criminalises sellers while remaining silent on the purchasers who exploit them and who...
Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP):
SNP
Can the minister give a little more detail about the announcement this afternoon of the additional £1 million? Can he say in what financial year it will be a...
George Lyon:
LD
If the member waits, I will come to that as I go through my speech.I am aware that there has been some concern about whether the resources are in place to en...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
I appreciate the Executive's intention, but how does the minister think the third objective that he outlined will be achieved unless direct contact can be ma...
George Lyon:
LD
Clearly, as the member is well aware, it is important that services are available to those who are involved in prostitution. Indeed, much work goes on in all...
Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP):
SNP
The bill will end the double standard whereby a prostitute can be charged with a criminal offence but the man who purchases sex cannot. We all welcome that. ...
George Lyon:
LD
Does the member acknowledge that the bill as introduced created an offence of kerb crawling, whereby men driving in their cars could be prosecuted and convic...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Under the provisions on kerb crawling in the bill as introduced, it would have been a defence that the person was driving in a car, whereas a person on a bus...
David McLetchie (Edinburgh Pentlands) (Con):
Con
I was interested in Mr Ewing's remarks about our imperial Parliament, as he called it. I simply point out that the present emperor is Scottish, that the next...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
Will the member be of the same opinion as to the validity of driving street prostitution underground if women are killed and more women are beaten up and vio...
David McLetchie:
Con
I certainly do not want that to happen. We await the information that may come—for example from the case involving the horrific murders in Ipswich—about the ...
Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab):
Lab
In my speech at stage 1, I indicated to Parliament that I believed that the bill as initially drafted had major problems, many of which were highlighted in t...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
The bill should be quietly voted down. The Executive admits that the bill in front of us is radically different from the one bearing the same name, introduce...
Mr Frank McAveety (Glasgow Shettleston) (Lab):
Lab
I understand Margo MacDonald's passion and commitment, but I disagree profoundly with her analysis of and perspective on the issue.When I first became an MSP...
Frances Curran (West of Scotland) (SSP):
SSP
The amended bill is a vast improvement on its original form and is moving in the right direction. Society's attitude to prostitution and the definition of it...
Iain Smith (North East Fife) (LD):
LD
I welcome the opportunity to explain why I cannot support the bill.Before voting on the bill, members need to ask themselves some key questions. Is the bill ...
Mark Ballard (Lothians) (Green):
Green
This is now a little bill with a very big title.I join in the tributes paid to the expert group and its work to examine how we can provide genuine solutions ...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Will the member give way?
Mark Ballard:
Green
I do not have enough time.Although the bill may deal with red light districts, will it deal with or simply move street prostitution? It will make it more dif...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
I had always thought that kerb crawling was already a statutory offence in Scotland. It is not, but the bill will close the gap in our legislation. Until now...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
Does the member agree with Fergus Ewing that the purchase of sex should be a crime? I quote exactly.
Mike Rumbles:
LD
No.Bristow Muldoon said that Fergus Ewing was trying to grandstand, which I thought was unfair. He was not trying to grandstand—he was grandstanding.
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Will the member give way?
Mike Rumbles:
LD
Yes—grandstand again, Fergus.
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
I am curious about whether Mr Rumbles will explain why it is wrong for a man to purchase sex on the street, but right for him to do so in a sauna.
Mike Rumbles:
LD
I do not think that we want to ban the purchase of sex, per se, across the country in all circumstances.
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP):
SNP
We have already done that for 16 and 17-year-olds.