Chamber
Plenary, 28 Feb 2007
28 Feb 2007 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Prostitution (Public Places) (Scotland) Bill
I understand Margo MacDonald's passion and commitment, but I disagree profoundly with her analysis of and perspective on the issue.
When I first became an MSP in 1999, one of the central issues in the inner east end of Glasgow was the emotional issue of how the community around Glasgow green, the Gallowgate and the Calton area had to deal with street prostitution not just at night time, but even during the daytime. In visiting the community, an Executive minister at that time encountered the same problem that people in the area encounter day in, day out at 11 o'clock in the morning. That is the reality that those neighbourhoods face. Individuals taking their children to primary schools and nurseries encounter that problem. Clearly, the Parliament had to listen to their concerns.
There are many complex debates around the issue of street prostitution and any form of sexual services. The debates on those topics will take place over the next period. Centrally, the bill is a welcome development. The powerful evidence that was provided by local residents shifted the perspective of the members of the Local Government and Transport Committee, and I commend the committee members for listening to the evidence from the Calton for all group, in particular. Most neighbourhood surveys in my constituency focus on other issues, but street prostitution was central to their experience in three ways. First, there has been a sexualisation of the neighbourhood, especially in the evenings. Secondly, that has led to young women and children encountering predatory men in the area. Thirdly, because of the high incidence in that part of Glasgow, over the years, of hostels and various other dependent venues, a culture and climate have been created in which street prostitution has been able to occur.
The bill recommends a way forward, although I recognise that the concerns that have been expressed by Margo MacDonald still need to be addressed. I also welcome the additional resources that the Executive has committed to providing pathways out of prostitution. Even if one or two women benefit from that, it is money well spent. On behalf of my constituents in the east end of Glasgow, I acknowledge the influence that the bill will have in ensuring that Calton for all genuinely means that, and that everybody can make a positive contribution to their community. I welcome the support that the Parliament will give to that community through the legislation.
When I first became an MSP in 1999, one of the central issues in the inner east end of Glasgow was the emotional issue of how the community around Glasgow green, the Gallowgate and the Calton area had to deal with street prostitution not just at night time, but even during the daytime. In visiting the community, an Executive minister at that time encountered the same problem that people in the area encounter day in, day out at 11 o'clock in the morning. That is the reality that those neighbourhoods face. Individuals taking their children to primary schools and nurseries encounter that problem. Clearly, the Parliament had to listen to their concerns.
There are many complex debates around the issue of street prostitution and any form of sexual services. The debates on those topics will take place over the next period. Centrally, the bill is a welcome development. The powerful evidence that was provided by local residents shifted the perspective of the members of the Local Government and Transport Committee, and I commend the committee members for listening to the evidence from the Calton for all group, in particular. Most neighbourhood surveys in my constituency focus on other issues, but street prostitution was central to their experience in three ways. First, there has been a sexualisation of the neighbourhood, especially in the evenings. Secondly, that has led to young women and children encountering predatory men in the area. Thirdly, because of the high incidence in that part of Glasgow, over the years, of hostels and various other dependent venues, a culture and climate have been created in which street prostitution has been able to occur.
The bill recommends a way forward, although I recognise that the concerns that have been expressed by Margo MacDonald still need to be addressed. I also welcome the additional resources that the Executive has committed to providing pathways out of prostitution. Even if one or two women benefit from that, it is money well spent. On behalf of my constituents in the east end of Glasgow, I acknowledge the influence that the bill will have in ensuring that Calton for all genuinely means that, and that everybody can make a positive contribution to their community. I welcome the support that the Parliament will give to that community through the legislation.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-5629, in the name of Tom McCabe, that Parliament agrees that the Prostitution (Public Places) (Scotland) ...
The Deputy Minister for Finance, Public Service Reform and Parliamentary Business (George Lyon):
LD
The Prostitution (Public Places) (Scotland) Bill is an important bill that will address an imbalance in the current law on street prostitution. At present, o...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
Order. I ask members who are leaving the chamber to do so quietly.
George Lyon:
LD
I am sure that members will agree that it cannot be right that the law criminalises sellers while remaining silent on the purchasers who exploit them and who...
Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP):
SNP
Can the minister give a little more detail about the announcement this afternoon of the additional £1 million? Can he say in what financial year it will be a...
George Lyon:
LD
If the member waits, I will come to that as I go through my speech.I am aware that there has been some concern about whether the resources are in place to en...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
I appreciate the Executive's intention, but how does the minister think the third objective that he outlined will be achieved unless direct contact can be ma...
George Lyon:
LD
Clearly, as the member is well aware, it is important that services are available to those who are involved in prostitution. Indeed, much work goes on in all...
Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP):
SNP
The bill will end the double standard whereby a prostitute can be charged with a criminal offence but the man who purchases sex cannot. We all welcome that. ...
George Lyon:
LD
Does the member acknowledge that the bill as introduced created an offence of kerb crawling, whereby men driving in their cars could be prosecuted and convic...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Under the provisions on kerb crawling in the bill as introduced, it would have been a defence that the person was driving in a car, whereas a person on a bus...
David McLetchie (Edinburgh Pentlands) (Con):
Con
I was interested in Mr Ewing's remarks about our imperial Parliament, as he called it. I simply point out that the present emperor is Scottish, that the next...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
Will the member be of the same opinion as to the validity of driving street prostitution underground if women are killed and more women are beaten up and vio...
David McLetchie:
Con
I certainly do not want that to happen. We await the information that may come—for example from the case involving the horrific murders in Ipswich—about the ...
Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab):
Lab
In my speech at stage 1, I indicated to Parliament that I believed that the bill as initially drafted had major problems, many of which were highlighted in t...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
The bill should be quietly voted down. The Executive admits that the bill in front of us is radically different from the one bearing the same name, introduce...
Mr Frank McAveety (Glasgow Shettleston) (Lab):
Lab
I understand Margo MacDonald's passion and commitment, but I disagree profoundly with her analysis of and perspective on the issue.When I first became an MSP...
Frances Curran (West of Scotland) (SSP):
SSP
The amended bill is a vast improvement on its original form and is moving in the right direction. Society's attitude to prostitution and the definition of it...
Iain Smith (North East Fife) (LD):
LD
I welcome the opportunity to explain why I cannot support the bill.Before voting on the bill, members need to ask themselves some key questions. Is the bill ...
Mark Ballard (Lothians) (Green):
Green
This is now a little bill with a very big title.I join in the tributes paid to the expert group and its work to examine how we can provide genuine solutions ...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Will the member give way?
Mark Ballard:
Green
I do not have enough time.Although the bill may deal with red light districts, will it deal with or simply move street prostitution? It will make it more dif...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
I had always thought that kerb crawling was already a statutory offence in Scotland. It is not, but the bill will close the gap in our legislation. Until now...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
Does the member agree with Fergus Ewing that the purchase of sex should be a crime? I quote exactly.
Mike Rumbles:
LD
No.Bristow Muldoon said that Fergus Ewing was trying to grandstand, which I thought was unfair. He was not trying to grandstand—he was grandstanding.
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Will the member give way?
Mike Rumbles:
LD
Yes—grandstand again, Fergus.
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
I am curious about whether Mr Rumbles will explain why it is wrong for a man to purchase sex on the street, but right for him to do so in a sauna.
Mike Rumbles:
LD
I do not think that we want to ban the purchase of sex, per se, across the country in all circumstances.
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP):
SNP
We have already done that for 16 and 17-year-olds.