Chamber
Plenary, 28 Feb 2007
28 Feb 2007 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Prostitution (Public Places) (Scotland) Bill
The bill should be quietly voted down. The Executive admits that the bill in front of us is radically different from the one bearing the same name, introduced last year and based on the report produced by the expert group convened by Sandra Hood. The group produced a balanced, sensible approach to the management of street prostitution. It was even-handed in exercising a duty of care towards vulnerable sex workers and towards the general community, particularly those people whose privacy or sense of well-being and security is adversely affected by the behaviour of either the buyers or the sellers of sex. I put that on record because that was the original intention—certainly, my original intention—but as I have only two minutes, I must answer some of the points that have been made.
The Hood group report also advised that the Executive should require councils to produce a local plan to ensure that support and services were accessible for street sex workers, including advice and help to exit prostitution. That would have allowed the councils in Aberdeen, Glasgow, Edinburgh and Dundee, in partnership with the police, health authorities, voluntary organisations representing sex workers, drugs services and residents, to produce a local plan to manage prostitution according to the different situations in our four big cities.
David McLetchie said that that would simply institutionalise prostitution. I think not. We had a tolerance zone, as it was called, in Edinburgh for almost 20 years and it did not institutionalise prostitution. We can point to statistics that show that the number of prostitutes working on the streets in Edinburgh fell during the period of the tolerance zone. The same cannot be done in Glasgow, where Routes Out is quoted as providing instances of best practice. Yesterday, my office tried to obtain up-to-date statistics from Routes Out on how many women had exited prostitution using the money that had already been made available by a previous minister. As always, we were given no figures at all.
Therefore, although I welcome the proposed funding, I am concerned about how the money that is going to be spent on helping vulnerable women will be apportioned and how the services will be delivered. I ask the minister to take into account what Ewan Aitken, the leader of the City of Edinburgh Council, said this week. He said that it is better to manage prostitution in a humane and sensible way, trying to moderate the harm that is done by it, than to adopt the sort of measures that are proposed in the bill.
I am convinced that we will put the safety of the women in jeopardy by driving prostitution underground. The examples in England show that violence has risen in areas where strict kerb-crawling measures have been introduced. It is not that I oppose measures against kerb crawling, but the bill does not meet the needs as regards how kerb crawling is affected by changes such as those that are proposed. I ask members not to pass further bad legislation today, but to vote against the bill.
The Hood group report also advised that the Executive should require councils to produce a local plan to ensure that support and services were accessible for street sex workers, including advice and help to exit prostitution. That would have allowed the councils in Aberdeen, Glasgow, Edinburgh and Dundee, in partnership with the police, health authorities, voluntary organisations representing sex workers, drugs services and residents, to produce a local plan to manage prostitution according to the different situations in our four big cities.
David McLetchie said that that would simply institutionalise prostitution. I think not. We had a tolerance zone, as it was called, in Edinburgh for almost 20 years and it did not institutionalise prostitution. We can point to statistics that show that the number of prostitutes working on the streets in Edinburgh fell during the period of the tolerance zone. The same cannot be done in Glasgow, where Routes Out is quoted as providing instances of best practice. Yesterday, my office tried to obtain up-to-date statistics from Routes Out on how many women had exited prostitution using the money that had already been made available by a previous minister. As always, we were given no figures at all.
Therefore, although I welcome the proposed funding, I am concerned about how the money that is going to be spent on helping vulnerable women will be apportioned and how the services will be delivered. I ask the minister to take into account what Ewan Aitken, the leader of the City of Edinburgh Council, said this week. He said that it is better to manage prostitution in a humane and sensible way, trying to moderate the harm that is done by it, than to adopt the sort of measures that are proposed in the bill.
I am convinced that we will put the safety of the women in jeopardy by driving prostitution underground. The examples in England show that violence has risen in areas where strict kerb-crawling measures have been introduced. It is not that I oppose measures against kerb crawling, but the bill does not meet the needs as regards how kerb crawling is affected by changes such as those that are proposed. I ask members not to pass further bad legislation today, but to vote against the bill.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-5629, in the name of Tom McCabe, that Parliament agrees that the Prostitution (Public Places) (Scotland) ...
The Deputy Minister for Finance, Public Service Reform and Parliamentary Business (George Lyon):
LD
The Prostitution (Public Places) (Scotland) Bill is an important bill that will address an imbalance in the current law on street prostitution. At present, o...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
Order. I ask members who are leaving the chamber to do so quietly.
George Lyon:
LD
I am sure that members will agree that it cannot be right that the law criminalises sellers while remaining silent on the purchasers who exploit them and who...
Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP):
SNP
Can the minister give a little more detail about the announcement this afternoon of the additional £1 million? Can he say in what financial year it will be a...
George Lyon:
LD
If the member waits, I will come to that as I go through my speech.I am aware that there has been some concern about whether the resources are in place to en...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
I appreciate the Executive's intention, but how does the minister think the third objective that he outlined will be achieved unless direct contact can be ma...
George Lyon:
LD
Clearly, as the member is well aware, it is important that services are available to those who are involved in prostitution. Indeed, much work goes on in all...
Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP):
SNP
The bill will end the double standard whereby a prostitute can be charged with a criminal offence but the man who purchases sex cannot. We all welcome that. ...
George Lyon:
LD
Does the member acknowledge that the bill as introduced created an offence of kerb crawling, whereby men driving in their cars could be prosecuted and convic...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Under the provisions on kerb crawling in the bill as introduced, it would have been a defence that the person was driving in a car, whereas a person on a bus...
David McLetchie (Edinburgh Pentlands) (Con):
Con
I was interested in Mr Ewing's remarks about our imperial Parliament, as he called it. I simply point out that the present emperor is Scottish, that the next...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
Will the member be of the same opinion as to the validity of driving street prostitution underground if women are killed and more women are beaten up and vio...
David McLetchie:
Con
I certainly do not want that to happen. We await the information that may come—for example from the case involving the horrific murders in Ipswich—about the ...
Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab):
Lab
In my speech at stage 1, I indicated to Parliament that I believed that the bill as initially drafted had major problems, many of which were highlighted in t...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
The bill should be quietly voted down. The Executive admits that the bill in front of us is radically different from the one bearing the same name, introduce...
Mr Frank McAveety (Glasgow Shettleston) (Lab):
Lab
I understand Margo MacDonald's passion and commitment, but I disagree profoundly with her analysis of and perspective on the issue.When I first became an MSP...
Frances Curran (West of Scotland) (SSP):
SSP
The amended bill is a vast improvement on its original form and is moving in the right direction. Society's attitude to prostitution and the definition of it...
Iain Smith (North East Fife) (LD):
LD
I welcome the opportunity to explain why I cannot support the bill.Before voting on the bill, members need to ask themselves some key questions. Is the bill ...
Mark Ballard (Lothians) (Green):
Green
This is now a little bill with a very big title.I join in the tributes paid to the expert group and its work to examine how we can provide genuine solutions ...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Will the member give way?
Mark Ballard:
Green
I do not have enough time.Although the bill may deal with red light districts, will it deal with or simply move street prostitution? It will make it more dif...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
I had always thought that kerb crawling was already a statutory offence in Scotland. It is not, but the bill will close the gap in our legislation. Until now...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
Does the member agree with Fergus Ewing that the purchase of sex should be a crime? I quote exactly.
Mike Rumbles:
LD
No.Bristow Muldoon said that Fergus Ewing was trying to grandstand, which I thought was unfair. He was not trying to grandstand—he was grandstanding.
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
Will the member give way?
Mike Rumbles:
LD
Yes—grandstand again, Fergus.
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
I am curious about whether Mr Rumbles will explain why it is wrong for a man to purchase sex on the street, but right for him to do so in a sauna.
Mike Rumbles:
LD
I do not think that we want to ban the purchase of sex, per se, across the country in all circumstances.
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP):
SNP
We have already done that for 16 and 17-year-olds.