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Chamber

Plenary, 28 Feb 2007

28 Feb 2007 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Prostitution (Public Places) (Scotland) Bill
In my speech at stage 1, I indicated to Parliament that I believed that the bill as initially drafted had major problems, many of which were highlighted in the Local Government and Transport Committee's stage 1 report, for which Mr Ewing wants to take credit. Although Mr Rumbles was not fully convinced of the case for there being a higher penalty for the purchaser, the committee agreed unanimously on the vast majority of the recommendations.

I also welcomed the commitments that had been given, in writing by the deputy minister, George Lyon, and in the debate by the minister, Tom McCabe, that many of the committee's concerns would be addressed in amendments at stage 2. In my view, that duly happened. The amendments that the Executive lodged were widely welcomed by committee members and were agreed to. Furthermore, I pointed out that the bill is not a comprehensive attempt at addressing all the problems associated with prostitution. After the election, Parliament should give more consideration to a range of issues associated with prostitution, and in particular to two issues: how we best support women in exiting prostitution; and what more can be done to change attitudes among men who become involved in buying sexual services.

Where the bill can have a positive effect is that, for the first time in Scotland, kerb crawling for the purposes of soliciting for prostitution will be criminalised. Until now, the law applied only to the person selling sexual services in the street—usually a woman. It is only right from the point of view of equity that men should be brought within the remit of the law. The police will be able to use that new provision in supporting communities affected by prostitution, and I hope that it will act as a deterrent to men in the first place. The original wording, which exempted someone loitering for the purposes of soliciting for prostitution if they did so while in a private car, has gone—that is welcome, as it was a bizarre concept.

The penalties available to the courts have been increased, which is welcome in relation to the purchaser of sexual services. A higher penalty may act as a deterrent to men, in particular, becoming involved in those activities and I hope that it will reduce demand. The wider penalties of seizing licences or vehicles should be available to the courts. I welcome the minister's indication that he has been in discussions with the United Kingdom Government over that. Mr Ewing was trying to grandstand with his amendment today. If it had been agreed to, the whole bill would have been incompatible with the Scotland Act 1998 and could have been struck down. I welcome the minister's response to Mr Ewing.

Diversionary services and support services, including drug rehabilitation, are important. The minister's announcement of additional resources in that regard is welcome. I encourage the Executive to work with the major city authorities to support those services that have a record of success in enabling and supporting women to exit prostitution. The bill is not a comprehensive attempt to resolve all the problems associated with prostitution, but it provides a potential means of protecting communities from the nuisance and alarm caused by street prostitution. By introducing new offences aimed at the person purchasing or seeking to purchase sexual services, the bill removes the inequality whereby men were not criminalised while women were. I support the passage of the bill.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman): Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-5629, in the name of Tom McCabe, that Parliament agrees that the Prostitution (Public Places) (Scotland) ...
The Deputy Minister for Finance, Public Service Reform and Parliamentary Business (George Lyon): LD
The Prostitution (Public Places) (Scotland) Bill is an important bill that will address an imbalance in the current law on street prostitution. At present, o...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Lab
Order. I ask members who are leaving the chamber to do so quietly.
George Lyon: LD
I am sure that members will agree that it cannot be right that the law criminalises sellers while remaining silent on the purchasers who exploit them and who...
Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): SNP
Can the minister give a little more detail about the announcement this afternoon of the additional £1 million? Can he say in what financial year it will be a...
George Lyon: LD
If the member waits, I will come to that as I go through my speech.I am aware that there has been some concern about whether the resources are in place to en...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind): Ind
I appreciate the Executive's intention, but how does the minister think the third objective that he outlined will be achieved unless direct contact can be ma...
George Lyon: LD
Clearly, as the member is well aware, it is important that services are available to those who are involved in prostitution. Indeed, much work goes on in all...
Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): SNP
The bill will end the double standard whereby a prostitute can be charged with a criminal offence but the man who purchases sex cannot. We all welcome that. ...
George Lyon: LD
Does the member acknowledge that the bill as introduced created an offence of kerb crawling, whereby men driving in their cars could be prosecuted and convic...
Fergus Ewing: SNP
Under the provisions on kerb crawling in the bill as introduced, it would have been a defence that the person was driving in a car, whereas a person on a bus...
David McLetchie (Edinburgh Pentlands) (Con): Con
I was interested in Mr Ewing's remarks about our imperial Parliament, as he called it. I simply point out that the present emperor is Scottish, that the next...
Margo MacDonald: Ind
Will the member be of the same opinion as to the validity of driving street prostitution underground if women are killed and more women are beaten up and vio...
David McLetchie: Con
I certainly do not want that to happen. We await the information that may come—for example from the case involving the horrific murders in Ipswich—about the ...
Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): Lab
In my speech at stage 1, I indicated to Parliament that I believed that the bill as initially drafted had major problems, many of which were highlighted in t...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind): Ind
The bill should be quietly voted down. The Executive admits that the bill in front of us is radically different from the one bearing the same name, introduce...
Mr Frank McAveety (Glasgow Shettleston) (Lab): Lab
I understand Margo MacDonald's passion and commitment, but I disagree profoundly with her analysis of and perspective on the issue.When I first became an MSP...
Frances Curran (West of Scotland) (SSP): SSP
The amended bill is a vast improvement on its original form and is moving in the right direction. Society's attitude to prostitution and the definition of it...
Iain Smith (North East Fife) (LD): LD
I welcome the opportunity to explain why I cannot support the bill.Before voting on the bill, members need to ask themselves some key questions. Is the bill ...
Mark Ballard (Lothians) (Green): Green
This is now a little bill with a very big title.I join in the tributes paid to the expert group and its work to examine how we can provide genuine solutions ...
Fergus Ewing: SNP
Will the member give way?
Mark Ballard: Green
I do not have enough time.Although the bill may deal with red light districts, will it deal with or simply move street prostitution? It will make it more dif...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD): LD
I had always thought that kerb crawling was already a statutory offence in Scotland. It is not, but the bill will close the gap in our legislation. Until now...
Margo MacDonald: Ind
Does the member agree with Fergus Ewing that the purchase of sex should be a crime? I quote exactly.
Mike Rumbles: LD
No.Bristow Muldoon said that Fergus Ewing was trying to grandstand, which I thought was unfair. He was not trying to grandstand—he was grandstanding.
Fergus Ewing: SNP
Will the member give way?
Mike Rumbles: LD
Yes—grandstand again, Fergus.
Fergus Ewing: SNP
I am curious about whether Mr Rumbles will explain why it is wrong for a man to purchase sex on the street, but right for him to do so in a sauna.
Mike Rumbles: LD
I do not think that we want to ban the purchase of sex, per se, across the country in all circumstances.
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP): SNP
We have already done that for 16 and 17-year-olds.