Chamber
Plenary, 21 Feb 2007
21 Feb 2007 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Environment
I agree with John Home Robertson that the people of Caithness know only too well what the nuclear industry means, following the clean-up around the coast there and the abysmal behaviour of UKAEA at Dounreay.
The debate started with a welcome for the ruling Greenpeace obtained in the High Court of Justice on the Government's consultation on new nuclear power. I highlight what Tony Blair said when he was asked whether it would put his plans for new nuclear power stations on hold:
"No. This won't affect the policy at all. It'll affect the process of consultation, but not the policy."
Does that not say it all about the Labour Party's view on what makes a consultation? According to the Labour Party, a consultation is something the Government does once it has decided what policy it is going to put into effect. It is a complete sham. It is not just the Labour Party in London that is saying that: it has been echoed up here. The Labour Party, with its Lib Dem colleagues, conducted a consultation on planning rights. The vast majority of people, who called for a third-party right of appeal in planning, were simply turned into a footnote and disregarded. Consultation means nothing according to this Government. That is deeply disappointing—and it is the important thing that we got out of the recent judgment.
Shiona Baird mentioned the one thing that is badly missing from other parties' amendments—energy efficiency. The Government's own performance and innovation unit has estimated that 30 per cent of the energy we use could be saved through energy efficiency. That means that we could have the same living standards and production standards but use 30 per cent less fuel to get there. Is that not something that we really ought to put first?
In Lockerbie, in the region that I represent, E.ON is building a biomass plant. That is excellent news, but the plant will stand alone: there is no consideration of combined heat and power with it. Lockerbie academy could be heated free of charge for the next 30 years, but almost 60 per cent of the heat energy from the fuel will go straight up the waste stack. Where is the planning in that? Where is the intelligent energy policy in that? Where is the energy efficiency? It is simply not there.
We have heard—from Alex Johnstone, for example—about the so-called energy gap, but electricity from nuclear power plants meets only 8 per cent of Scotland's total energy needs. The amount of electricity that is produced in that way is trivial—it is very small. The fact that, for a large amount of time, both Hunterston B and Torness power stations have been offline without the lights going out shows that to be the case. We have also heard nuclear power referred to as a low-carbon option, but that completely disregards the processes of uranium mining and enrichment, the building and decommission of nuclear plants, and dealing with nuclear waste. In fact, we do not yet know how to deal with nuclear waste, but we know that dealing with nuclear waste will produce carbon emissions.
On the other side of the argument we have the renewables option. Scotland is the Saudi Arabia of wind and sea. We have the biggest resource of renewables, per head of population, in Europe.
Rosie Kane referred to the Greenpeace ship Arctic Sunrise. It is worth mentioning that it runs entirely on recycled chip fat—something that we tend to pour down the drain or throw away and lose completely.
One of the issues that the Green party's amendment addresses is whether the Lib Dems will oppose nuclear power and then join a pro-nuclear Labour Party, just as they supported TPRA in their manifesto but voted it down in the chamber.
If we embrace the massive savings that energy efficiency offers, we can save money, reduce carbon emissions and rid Scotland of the menace of nuclear power. It is not a difficult choice; it is just a question of political will.
The debate started with a welcome for the ruling Greenpeace obtained in the High Court of Justice on the Government's consultation on new nuclear power. I highlight what Tony Blair said when he was asked whether it would put his plans for new nuclear power stations on hold:
"No. This won't affect the policy at all. It'll affect the process of consultation, but not the policy."
Does that not say it all about the Labour Party's view on what makes a consultation? According to the Labour Party, a consultation is something the Government does once it has decided what policy it is going to put into effect. It is a complete sham. It is not just the Labour Party in London that is saying that: it has been echoed up here. The Labour Party, with its Lib Dem colleagues, conducted a consultation on planning rights. The vast majority of people, who called for a third-party right of appeal in planning, were simply turned into a footnote and disregarded. Consultation means nothing according to this Government. That is deeply disappointing—and it is the important thing that we got out of the recent judgment.
Shiona Baird mentioned the one thing that is badly missing from other parties' amendments—energy efficiency. The Government's own performance and innovation unit has estimated that 30 per cent of the energy we use could be saved through energy efficiency. That means that we could have the same living standards and production standards but use 30 per cent less fuel to get there. Is that not something that we really ought to put first?
In Lockerbie, in the region that I represent, E.ON is building a biomass plant. That is excellent news, but the plant will stand alone: there is no consideration of combined heat and power with it. Lockerbie academy could be heated free of charge for the next 30 years, but almost 60 per cent of the heat energy from the fuel will go straight up the waste stack. Where is the planning in that? Where is the intelligent energy policy in that? Where is the energy efficiency? It is simply not there.
We have heard—from Alex Johnstone, for example—about the so-called energy gap, but electricity from nuclear power plants meets only 8 per cent of Scotland's total energy needs. The amount of electricity that is produced in that way is trivial—it is very small. The fact that, for a large amount of time, both Hunterston B and Torness power stations have been offline without the lights going out shows that to be the case. We have also heard nuclear power referred to as a low-carbon option, but that completely disregards the processes of uranium mining and enrichment, the building and decommission of nuclear plants, and dealing with nuclear waste. In fact, we do not yet know how to deal with nuclear waste, but we know that dealing with nuclear waste will produce carbon emissions.
On the other side of the argument we have the renewables option. Scotland is the Saudi Arabia of wind and sea. We have the biggest resource of renewables, per head of population, in Europe.
Rosie Kane referred to the Greenpeace ship Arctic Sunrise. It is worth mentioning that it runs entirely on recycled chip fat—something that we tend to pour down the drain or throw away and lose completely.
One of the issues that the Green party's amendment addresses is whether the Lib Dems will oppose nuclear power and then join a pro-nuclear Labour Party, just as they supported TPRA in their manifesto but voted it down in the chamber.
If we embrace the massive savings that energy efficiency offers, we can save money, reduce carbon emissions and rid Scotland of the menace of nuclear power. It is not a difficult choice; it is just a question of political will.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-5607, in the name of Richard Lochhead, on the environment.
Richard Lochhead (Moray) (SNP):
SNP
Last week, the High Court in London delivered the devastating judgment that the United Kingdom Government's decision to pursue a programme of new nuclear pow...
The Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Allan Wilson):
Lab
Mr Lochhead's latter point is interesting. I have noted his party leader's comments in the press about the subject. Does Mr Lochhead know how much BP demands...
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
The key problem is that the UK Government has postponed a decision on the matter. We must decide now and get behind what is a massive opportunity for Scotlan...
The Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Allan Wilson):
Lab
We have just heard the usual litany of misrepresentation of the Executive's approach to renewable energy and our position on nuclear power. After all the deb...
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
The First Minister has repeatedly said that the report of the Committee on Radioactive Waste Management would indicate to him whether a solution had been fou...
Allan Wilson:
Lab
I have already outlined the Executive's position. Our policy on new nuclear power stations was made clear in response to the Department of Trade and Industry...
Alex Johnstone (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
It is nice to get back to discussing the good old subjects: energy, and nuclear power's place in it, is one that we have discussed many times. However, I do ...
Bruce Crawford (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Alex Johnstone:
Con
No thank you.Where does that leave us in relation to the SNP motion? The SNP has lodged what can only be described as an opportunist motion—an attempt to rai...
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
Will the member give way?
Alex Johnstone:
Con
No. It is all very well for those of us who have the wealth and resources to depend on renewable energy to assume that we will manage to deal with the odd da...
Ms Rosemary Byrne (South of Scotland) (Sol):
Sol
Will the member take an intervention?
Alex Johnstone:
Con
No, thank you.The SNP has brought this subject to us again. We want to hear more about what it would do to ensure that we do not require nuclear energy—if th...
Shiona Baird (North East Scotland) (Green):
Green
Many environmental threats face Scotland, but few pose such a dire threat as climate change. We all know that it is happening, what causes it and what needs ...
Allan Wilson:
Lab
We have heard tributes to Greenpeace's pioneering campaigning on environmental protection. Does Shiona Baird agree with Patrick Moore, the former leader of G...
Shiona Baird:
Green
We must recognise that there are quite a few supposed environmentalists who have changed their views. However, all their arguments can be undermined by the f...
Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD):
LD
Apart from its welcoming the High Court judgment, of which I will say more later, the SNP motion is one that I could endorse. The difficulty that I have with...
Bruce Crawford:
SNP
On that point, on which I agree with the member, will she take an intervention?
Nora Radcliffe:
LD
I am sorry, but I have got a lot to get through in four minutes. Most important, building state-subsidised nuclear power plants will sap investment from the ...
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
NPA
This is a short debate and I ask for speeches of a maximum of four minutes. Even then, I am not sure that I can accommodate all members who wish to speak. I ...
Ms Maureen Watt (North East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
It is the two Maureens. Thank you, Presiding Officer.As this Blair Government thankfully nears its end, it will be remembered in a negative and discredited w...
Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
The Scottish National Party seems to be committed to renewables only until the going gets tough and its members think that they might lose a vote or two. For...
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Maureen Macmillan:
Lab
No.I agree that we can have subsea cables down the east and west coasts and underground land cables when necessary, but that will require a lot of visible en...
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
What about nuclear power?
Maureen Macmillan:
Lab
The member should stop shouting, for goodness' sake.I urge members to speak up for wind turbines, for marine power and for the necessary upgrading of the gri...
Bruce Crawford (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
Maureen Macmillan told Richard Lochhead to stop shouting, but our ears are sore from her shout—it was certainly not a speech.The Tory and Executive amendment...
Allan Wilson:
Lab
Is the member proposing that Scotland's or the UK's energy needs should be determined by public opinion polls?
Bruce Crawford:
SNP
In that case, I wonder why Mr Blair put the road charging petition on the 10 Downing Street website and sought people's views. Why would he do that if he doe...