Chamber
Plenary, 15 Feb 2007
15 Feb 2007 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Education
I welcome the debate that Brian Monteith has brought to the chamber, although I was a bit surprised to hear that he is disappointed that I lodged an amendment to his motion. Everyone in the chamber is aware that I have a lot to say on additional support needs. I felt that that area could have been boosted somewhat in the motion.
I acknowledge the role of HMIE and the job that it does in education. Much progress has been made over the past few years in boosting that and in greatly improving the system. Like Robin Harper, I remember being very nervous about HMIE inspections, although they are not so far in the past for me as they are for him. I remember finding the experience very daunting. If inspections are done in a positive and non-threatening manner, the feedback that teachers and schools get is one of the good ways in which the system can be improved. Along with quality assurance and self-evaluation, inspections can successfully improve the education system, but only if they are done properly.
In my speech, I will focus on equality of opportunity for all. I would like to see HMIE inspections place greater focus on class sizes, for example. In a town that has two or three schools, the intake of primary 1 pupils can lead to 18 in a class in one school and 30 in a class in another school. That will come as no surprise to members—we know it from experience, but it is not equality. I would like HMIE to look much more closely at the standards and level of children who are taught in big classes. We have not done enough research on that, so we need more.
I would also like to see more being done on school meals. Some children in deprived areas still do not have a breakfast club, but magnet schools in middle-class areas do. Middle-class parents are not only vocal but prepared to put in the money to pay for a breakfast club. That is not equality. A good breakfast in the morning is a good start for our children, so I would like to see HMIE scrutinise that area. Last week, I received a letter from a school in the Borders in which I was told that children at two schools in the Borders do not receive hot school meals. That is not equality. Indeed, I believe that they are the only two schools in Scotland in that category, but I am open to correction on the matter. I want HMIE to pick up on such issues.
I also want to see equal access in our schools to sports facilities, music and drama. At the moment, local authorities decide whether or not to employ a drama teacher, for example. That is not equality. I want HMIE to scrutinise that.
I am very pleased that specific inspections now take place with regard to additional support needs. We have had one in relation to autism and we are about to have one in relation to dyslexia. HMIE needs to look very carefully at what is being provided for young people who have additional support needs, in which category I include young people who have social, emotional and behavioural difficulties. All too often, those young people and their parents are missed out in the interviews that take place. We need to ensure that the parents of those pupils get the chance either to fill in a questionnaire or to be interviewed on their child's additional support needs. I would also like there to be focus on assessment of such children, identification of their support needs, and planning and reviews. At the moment, a big issue for many parents relates to the Scottish Qualifications Authority's concessions for exams. Practice around the country is patchy, so I want HMIE to place a much greater focus on those areas.
I welcome the debate. I thank the Presiding Officer for calling me and I am glad that I was able to make this speech. I will support Brian Monteith's motion, but I regret that my amendment, in which I expanded on the terms of the motion, was not accepted.
I acknowledge the role of HMIE and the job that it does in education. Much progress has been made over the past few years in boosting that and in greatly improving the system. Like Robin Harper, I remember being very nervous about HMIE inspections, although they are not so far in the past for me as they are for him. I remember finding the experience very daunting. If inspections are done in a positive and non-threatening manner, the feedback that teachers and schools get is one of the good ways in which the system can be improved. Along with quality assurance and self-evaluation, inspections can successfully improve the education system, but only if they are done properly.
In my speech, I will focus on equality of opportunity for all. I would like to see HMIE inspections place greater focus on class sizes, for example. In a town that has two or three schools, the intake of primary 1 pupils can lead to 18 in a class in one school and 30 in a class in another school. That will come as no surprise to members—we know it from experience, but it is not equality. I would like HMIE to look much more closely at the standards and level of children who are taught in big classes. We have not done enough research on that, so we need more.
I would also like to see more being done on school meals. Some children in deprived areas still do not have a breakfast club, but magnet schools in middle-class areas do. Middle-class parents are not only vocal but prepared to put in the money to pay for a breakfast club. That is not equality. A good breakfast in the morning is a good start for our children, so I would like to see HMIE scrutinise that area. Last week, I received a letter from a school in the Borders in which I was told that children at two schools in the Borders do not receive hot school meals. That is not equality. Indeed, I believe that they are the only two schools in Scotland in that category, but I am open to correction on the matter. I want HMIE to pick up on such issues.
I also want to see equal access in our schools to sports facilities, music and drama. At the moment, local authorities decide whether or not to employ a drama teacher, for example. That is not equality. I want HMIE to scrutinise that.
I am very pleased that specific inspections now take place with regard to additional support needs. We have had one in relation to autism and we are about to have one in relation to dyslexia. HMIE needs to look very carefully at what is being provided for young people who have additional support needs, in which category I include young people who have social, emotional and behavioural difficulties. All too often, those young people and their parents are missed out in the interviews that take place. We need to ensure that the parents of those pupils get the chance either to fill in a questionnaire or to be interviewed on their child's additional support needs. I would also like there to be focus on assessment of such children, identification of their support needs, and planning and reviews. At the moment, a big issue for many parents relates to the Scottish Qualifications Authority's concessions for exams. Practice around the country is patchy, so I want HMIE to place a much greater focus on those areas.
I welcome the debate. I thank the Presiding Officer for calling me and I am glad that I was able to make this speech. I will support Brian Monteith's motion, but I regret that my amendment, in which I expanded on the terms of the motion, was not accepted.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
NPA
Before the debate on school education starts, I must inform members that I am the only Presiding Officer available today and that I require a 10-minute break...
Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Ind):
Ind
Presiding Officer, will you clarify how long I have for my opening speech?
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
A little over four minutes.
Mr Monteith:
Ind
I am rather hopeful that this debate on schools will be better tempered than the previous debate, but one never knows. I was surprised to see that an amendme...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Wind up, please.
Mr Monteith:
Ind
I am just about to wind up, Presiding Officer.I propose that the inspectorate should come before the Education Committee annually to explain its annual repor...
The Deputy Minister for Education and Young People (Robert Brown):
LD
I welcome the terms of Brian Monteith's motion and the opportunity to pay tribute to the work of Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Education. It might be worth s...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
Can the minister explain why the chief inspector of schools says that standards of literacy and numeracy have risen while, at the same time, universities com...
Robert Brown:
LD
I accept that there is a series of issues to consider. The whole purpose of having inspection and local authority monitoring systems is constantly to improve...
Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
I, too, support the motion and welcome its terms. We place on record our recognition of HMIE's valuable work in Scotland's education system. I am pleased, ho...
Mr Monteith:
Ind
I know that the member takes a great interest in the affairs of Linlithgow. Can she tell me whether she is satisfied that seven primary schools were not insp...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
Far be it from me to defend a Labour-Liberal Democrat Executive, but there were 14 years of Conservative Government between 1983 and 1997. I understand that ...
Mr Monteith:
Ind
Will the member give way?
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
I am sorry, but I will continue if I may. There is a big agenda issue with HMIE's role in the curriculum for excellence. If we are to change the culture of S...
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con):
Con
Fiona Hyslop has made a very good speech and I welcome the fact that the independent members have raised the important work of Her Majesty's Inspectorate of ...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
If every headmaster had complete freedom to set their own priorities, how could we avoid a situation in which parents decided that they preferred the managem...
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton:
Con
It is obviously important that parents have a say but, ultimately, the head teacher must make the decision. More decisions should be in local control. Parent...
Peter Peacock (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
It is a pleasure to open for the Labour Party. In many respects, today is a remarkable day. It is remarkable for me because this is my first speech as a back...
Mr Monteith:
Ind
I have another example of a situation in which teachers and head teachers welcome inspection reports. When a report identifies that a school building is lett...
Peter Peacock:
Lab
Brian Monteith makes a valid point.I turn to the frequency of inspection, which is a difficult issue that we must examine. It is hard to strike the right bal...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
We move to the open debate. I ask that speeches be brief.
Iain Smith (North East Fife) (LD):
LD
I, too, welcome the debate. Like Peter Peacock, I was surprised to read a motion in the name of Brian Monteith about consensus. In today's politically correc...
Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green):
Green
I well remember the time, in 1964, when I was awaiting with a dry mouth and sweaty palms my very first inspection. It was the inspection at the end of my fir...
Ms Rosemary Byrne (South of Scotland) (Sol):
Sol
I welcome the debate that Brian Monteith has brought to the chamber, although I was a bit surprised to hear that he is disappointed that I lodged an amendme...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
We move to wind-up speeches. Again, I stress that members should keep to four minutes. I am advised that I have missed out Richard Baker. I am so sorry, Mr B...
Richard Baker (North East Scotland) (Lab):
Lab
How could you, Presiding Officer?As we are short of time, I will cut to the chase. All members have welcomed HMIE's reports on schools, so there is no need f...
Mr Frank McAveety (Glasgow Shettleston) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome Peter Peacock to the bad boys benches at the back of the chamber. Looking at the members who are seated in the back rows confirms my view about tho...
Dave Petrie (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
The debate has been good. As another former teacher, I have experienced HMIE inspections, which I found to be fair, balanced and comprehensive, with any iden...
Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
The debate has been useful. The Scottish National Party thanks Brian Monteith for raising the subject—he is a man who could never be accused of lacking ideas...
Robert Brown:
LD
As a number of members have said, the debate has been useful. We are indebted to Brian Monteith for securing it. I should begin with the shameful declaration...