Chamber
Plenary, 07 Feb 2007
07 Feb 2007 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Tartan
I congratulate the minister on changing his mind. I certainly remember the time when he and people of his age group denigrated tartan—I will come back to that thought. I ask him to ensure that the tartan week organisers do not instruct the Scottish Enterprise team that is going to try to evaluate tartan's importance. I also congratulate Jamie McGrigor. There is no doubt about it: he has done the right thing at the right time. It is big of the Executive to have taken his proposals on board.
I wonder why the minister started by referring to the debate about tartan. Ken Macintosh's speech, and even Kenny MacAskill's speech, gave us the answer: they dismissed the thought of Harry Lauder. We can all get embarrassed about Harry Lauder if we like but, abroad, in all those places where people know about Scotland, they might just know about Scotland through Harry Lauder. The late Jimmy Logan explained to me how, in theatre terms, Harry Lauder was quite an icon. We must look less to the confusing images of the past and more to what we agree is the way to use such icons, even if we are a bit embarrassed about them, to promote Scotland. There is a difficulty with promoting tartan while we are diluting Scots identity and its promotion.
I will draw a parallel: I ask the gentlemen in the chamber to think of lederhosen for just a minute. Where do we associate with lederhosen? I see the minister slapping his thigh—good on him. Is it Austria, or is it Bavaria? I associate them with Bavaria, because I know the subtleties, but most folk are confused about where lederhosen come from. I put it to members that the same confusion might exist regarding where tartan fits into the panoply of the world's patterns. Where does Paisley pattern come from? That uncertainty exists because we have not promoted the Scottish identity and used tartan unashamedly to do so. That is one of those wee things that we will just have to sort out—I am sure that we are on the way to doing that.
The minister said that he would listen to good ideas. I have about six. First, there is the recognition factor. We are kidding ourselves if we think that, everywhere in the globe, people know what Scotland is and can distinguish Scotland from other parts of the United Kingdom. We should not kid ourselves like that.
Once, when I tried to check my bags through from Atlanta airport to Edinburgh, I had quite a discussion—it eventually became quite a heated discussion—with the helpful young woman behind the desk. She asked, "Edinburgh's in London, isn't it?" I replied, "No, it's not in London—it's in Scotland." "Yes," she said, "but that's in London, isn't it?" "No," I said. "Edinburgh is the capital of Scotland, which is a different country." Her nametag said that she was called Marie Stuart, but she did not have the faintest idea that she was part of the diaspora. We must not imagine that the opportunity is already there for us. I want lots of television advertisements and film placements. Let us start with Bollywood—a growing market, I point out to the minister—and there is Chinese television, too.
Although Kenny MacAskill waxed lyrical about tartan week, I do not think that it is big enough or focused enough yet. We should be getting in touch with Craig Ferguson, for example, and ensuring that really nice tartan ties and other tartan accoutrements are sent to him, so that he can refer to them when he presents his show, which is one of the biggest coast-to-coast shows in America.
Why does the Parliament not use tartan? The colours that we have are very fetching, but we could use tartan much more. I am sorry to see that the Presiding Officer is looking at me like that, because I wanted to go on to mention tartan tat. As a representative of this country, I am sometimes concerned when I see the tat on sale up and down the High Street. However, I remember what I said at the start of my speech. Ken Macintosh should not get embarrassed about Harry Lauder, and I will not get embarrassed about the fact that some folk have different tastes from mine. That is what tartan tat amounts to, and no more.
I wonder why the minister started by referring to the debate about tartan. Ken Macintosh's speech, and even Kenny MacAskill's speech, gave us the answer: they dismissed the thought of Harry Lauder. We can all get embarrassed about Harry Lauder if we like but, abroad, in all those places where people know about Scotland, they might just know about Scotland through Harry Lauder. The late Jimmy Logan explained to me how, in theatre terms, Harry Lauder was quite an icon. We must look less to the confusing images of the past and more to what we agree is the way to use such icons, even if we are a bit embarrassed about them, to promote Scotland. There is a difficulty with promoting tartan while we are diluting Scots identity and its promotion.
I will draw a parallel: I ask the gentlemen in the chamber to think of lederhosen for just a minute. Where do we associate with lederhosen? I see the minister slapping his thigh—good on him. Is it Austria, or is it Bavaria? I associate them with Bavaria, because I know the subtleties, but most folk are confused about where lederhosen come from. I put it to members that the same confusion might exist regarding where tartan fits into the panoply of the world's patterns. Where does Paisley pattern come from? That uncertainty exists because we have not promoted the Scottish identity and used tartan unashamedly to do so. That is one of those wee things that we will just have to sort out—I am sure that we are on the way to doing that.
The minister said that he would listen to good ideas. I have about six. First, there is the recognition factor. We are kidding ourselves if we think that, everywhere in the globe, people know what Scotland is and can distinguish Scotland from other parts of the United Kingdom. We should not kid ourselves like that.
Once, when I tried to check my bags through from Atlanta airport to Edinburgh, I had quite a discussion—it eventually became quite a heated discussion—with the helpful young woman behind the desk. She asked, "Edinburgh's in London, isn't it?" I replied, "No, it's not in London—it's in Scotland." "Yes," she said, "but that's in London, isn't it?" "No," I said. "Edinburgh is the capital of Scotland, which is a different country." Her nametag said that she was called Marie Stuart, but she did not have the faintest idea that she was part of the diaspora. We must not imagine that the opportunity is already there for us. I want lots of television advertisements and film placements. Let us start with Bollywood—a growing market, I point out to the minister—and there is Chinese television, too.
Although Kenny MacAskill waxed lyrical about tartan week, I do not think that it is big enough or focused enough yet. We should be getting in touch with Craig Ferguson, for example, and ensuring that really nice tartan ties and other tartan accoutrements are sent to him, so that he can refer to them when he presents his show, which is one of the biggest coast-to-coast shows in America.
Why does the Parliament not use tartan? The colours that we have are very fetching, but we could use tartan much more. I am sorry to see that the Presiding Officer is looking at me like that, because I wanted to go on to mention tartan tat. As a representative of this country, I am sometimes concerned when I see the tat on sale up and down the High Street. However, I remember what I said at the start of my speech. Ken Macintosh should not get embarrassed about Harry Lauder, and I will not get embarrassed about the fact that some folk have different tastes from mine. That is what tartan tat amounts to, and no more.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on the promotion of tartan and Scotland's tartan industry.
The Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (Allan Wilson):
Lab
I welcome the opportunity that today's debate gives us to look at one of Scotland's most iconic and readily recognisable images—tartan. The subject evokes a ...
Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP):
SNP
How does the minister intend to build consensus around the objective that he just outlined—which I support fully—to ensure that some practical action comes o...
Allan Wilson:
Lab
I will explain the initial steps by which we will seek to secure the consensus that John Swinney and I, and probably the whole chamber, wish to see. I tend t...
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
I might have misheard the minister, but I believe that he said that the situation with tartan is wholly unregulated. However, the Scottish Tartans Authority ...
Allan Wilson:
Lab
The member is correct. It has been suggested that there is little time for this debate, but it seems to have stimulated the kind of discussion that I hoped i...
Jim Mather (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
I give the warmest possible welcome to the minister's words and, indeed, welcome this opportunity to reinforce tartan's iconic importance.Scotland, of course...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
With reference to the learned professor's claim that 98 per cent of the world's population has some idea of what Scotland means, do we have any notion of how...
Jim Mather:
SNP
Professor Michael Porter's reputation suggests that a somewhat more systematic approach would have been taken. Certainly, his work has passed muster—I believ...
Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD):
LD
Alex Salmond. Laughter.
Jim Mather:
SNP
If we are going to talk about the living dead, it might be Prime Minister's question time that features, Mr Stone. The book is all about the efficacy of trib...
Mr Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
I congratulate Allan Wilson, the Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning, on securing the debate.I listened carefully to what the minister said....
Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD):
LD
I congratulate Jamie McGrigor on introducing the Scottish Register of Tartans Bill. I also congratulate members on their speeches, including Jim Mather. I ag...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I wonder whether the member would like to take this opportunity to apologise on behalf of the Whig Government of the time for the act of proscription 1747.
Mr Stone:
LD
That is tempting.Tartan was proscribed north of the Highland line. If a person wore a greatcoat or jacket of tartan, they were subject either to six months' ...
Jeremy Purvis:
LD
It was George IV.
Mr Stone:
LD
That is absolutely correct. I stand corrected—I meant George IV.Sir Walter Scott persuaded George IV to come north to Edinburgh in 1822. It is well known tha...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
We come to the open debate. If we do not have too many digressions, every member who wants to speak will be able to do so.
Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab):
Lab
I am pleased to speak in the debate. I inform members of my interest in Scotland's tartan industry: my wife's family has been involved in kilt making for six...
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP):
SSCUP
Does the member agree that, unless protection is built into the Scottish Register of Tartans Bill such that the only tartan that matters is that produced in ...
Mr Macintosh:
Lab
I admire John Swinburne's hopes, but unfortunately I do not think that what he suggests will be possible. We have to take an inclusive approach to tartan. I ...
Jeremy Purvis:
LD
I appreciate the member's arguments, but can he appreciate that part of the success of the modern tartan industry has been the lack of bureaucracy? We have a...
Mr Macintosh:
Lab
I appreciate Mr Purvis's concerns, just as I appreciated Mr Swinburne's concerns. However, I do not think that the register will take a judgmental approach a...
Mr Kenny MacAskill (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
As my colleague Jim Mather has stated, the Scottish National Party welcomes the Executive's proposals. We look forward to seeing what the Executive will outl...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
I congratulate the minister on changing his mind. I certainly remember the time when he and people of his age group denigrated tartan—I will come back to tha...
Christine May (Central Fife) (Lab):
Lab
The Scottish Register of Tartans Bill came before the Enterprise and Culture Committee, and I rise as a member of that committee to discuss how we reacted to...
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
With Lochcarron of Scotland, Andrew Elliot Ltd and Robert Noble in my constituency, I am extremely lucky to be the constituency representative of the finest ...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
Will the member give way?
Jeremy Purvis:
LD
If I have time later on, I will give way.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Murray Tosh):
Con
You will not have time; you have one minute left.