Chamber
Plenary, 31 Jan 2007
31 Jan 2007 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Health Board Elections (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I cannot for the moment.
As I said, in the case of the health service, we need the highest possible standards of leadership and management, which will come from many different people: from clinical leadership and, yes—I dare to say it—from managers. It will also come from people who adopt a non-executive role and, incidentally, from people who have come through an elected process, because councillors sit around the board table. The challenge that they face is that of managing change.
It is not good enough that, time and again, politicians—not only politicians in this Parliament, but people who have gone before us—sign up to documents such as the Kerr report, health plans, white papers and the like, but when the chips are down and it comes to considering how they put in place the mechanics, the arrangements and the people to take forward change, they bottle out of some of the challenges.
We must move on from the bricks-and-mortar debate that we have had about our health service of late. We must move forward and have a vision of the health service for the future. Members may think that we can somehow fix and fudge the bill in a few weeks in the dying phase of this session of Parliament, but I suggest that that is not the way to run our health service, as it is too big and too important to us all. I urge members to reject the bill.
As I said, in the case of the health service, we need the highest possible standards of leadership and management, which will come from many different people: from clinical leadership and, yes—I dare to say it—from managers. It will also come from people who adopt a non-executive role and, incidentally, from people who have come through an elected process, because councillors sit around the board table. The challenge that they face is that of managing change.
It is not good enough that, time and again, politicians—not only politicians in this Parliament, but people who have gone before us—sign up to documents such as the Kerr report, health plans, white papers and the like, but when the chips are down and it comes to considering how they put in place the mechanics, the arrangements and the people to take forward change, they bottle out of some of the challenges.
We must move on from the bricks-and-mortar debate that we have had about our health service of late. We must move forward and have a vision of the health service for the future. Members may think that we can somehow fix and fudge the bill in a few weeks in the dying phase of this session of Parliament, but I suggest that that is not the way to run our health service, as it is too big and too important to us all. I urge members to reject the bill.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-5478, in the name of Bill Butler, that the Parliament agrees to the general principles of the Health Boar...
Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab):
Lab
First, I wish to draw attention to my entry in the register of members' interests relating to the financial support given to me by Unison to aid the developm...
Mr David Davidson (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
Bill Butler said that he would be prepared to accept various amendments at stage 2, but what would he do if health boards as we know them were abolished? The...
Bill Butler:
Lab
I believe that the CHPs are not inimical to the reasonable reform that I have suggested. In response to David Davidson's first question, I point out that no ...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
The member has pointed out the need for democracy, openness and accountability. Might they not be provided by a better system of accountability and report ba...
Bill Butler:
Lab
The improvements that have taken place in public participation—I think that that is what the member alludes to—are to be welcomed. In fact, every witness who...
The Minister for Health and Community Care (Mr Andy Kerr):
Lab
It is perhaps no surprise to anyone in the chamber that the Executive is opposed to the bill. I will spend some time explaining the reasons for our position....
Brian Adam (Aberdeen North) (SNP):
SNP
Why does the minister think that it is perfectly acceptable for Edinburgh's man in Glasgow, for example, to be accountable to the public through the minister...
Mr Kerr:
Lab
Because it is the national health service. Week after week in this chamber I hear from members about postcode prescribing, about boards not doing what they s...
Bill Butler:
Lab
Does the minister agree that the estimated cost of £5 million, which is at the top end of the Executive's approximations, would be a drop in the ocean compar...
Mr Kerr:
Lab
Yes, it does. However, the Electoral Reform Society does not believe in Mr Butler's approach to the elections, which could be even more expensive than has be...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
You should be finishing now, minister.
Mr Kerr:
Lab
The bill is emphatically not the answer to the concerns that have been expressed. Our opposition to the bill is long standing and principled and there are go...
Shona Robison (Dundee East) (SNP):
SNP
I pay tribute to the work of Bill Butler and his bill team in developing the bill.The Scottish National Party has supported the principle of direct elections...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
I simply want us to get our statistics in order. Do we know what percentage of the public is satisfied that they are properly represented in the decisions th...
Shona Robison:
SNP
I am sure that there are a number of views about that and that many members of the public feel that they are not properly represented in the Parliament's dec...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
I am surprised by what the member has said, because it is my understanding that Bill Butler is not willing to discuss having a fair voting system and that we...
Shona Robison:
SNP
Mr Rumbles knows how the Parliament works. It is a question of trying to persuade people of the merits of one's arguments at stage 2. That is all one can do....
Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab):
Lab
Will the member give way on that point?
Shona Robison:
SNP
I have taken two interventions and I need to make some progress. Interruption.
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
The member is not taking an intervention.
Shona Robison:
SNP
Surely the same arguments and concerns could be raised against involving the democratic process in the management of education or social work. Even so, I ass...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
The member should be closing.
Shona Robison:
SNP
Surely that option is preferable to that which the minister is taking in fudging the issue by calling for pilots. Clearly, he is diametrically opposed to the...
Mrs Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
I came to the stage 1 consideration of the bill with a completely open mind. I fully understand Bill Butler's reasons for introducing it. Over the past year ...
Mike Rumbles:
LD
Will the member take an intervention?
Mrs Milne:
Con
No. There have been exceptions, including the fight to retain the option of giving birth in community hospitals in Aboyne and Fraserburgh in Aberdeenshire. I...
Mr Kerr:
Lab
Is the member aware that, in all the major configurations—including the one that Lewis Macdonald conducted in Lanarkshire—major concessions were made in favo...
Mrs Milne:
Con
I hear what the minister is saying, but I am dealing with a point on Aberdeenshire. The outcome in that case was successful, but only because of a committed ...
Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD):
LD
Will Nanette Milne give way?