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Chamber

Plenary, 31 Jan 2007

31 Jan 2007 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Health Board Elections (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Because it is the national health service. Week after week in this chamber I hear from members about postcode prescribing, about boards not doing what they should do, about waiting times and about cancer targets. The resources for those boards are voted on by this Parliament. The bill would remove the centrality of the NHS and create a competing mandate. The bill does not address that point.

The bill's proposals would lead to uncertainty about who is responsible for monitoring and improving performance, for making hard decisions in the interests of patients and for planning tomorrow's health service.

There is a risk that the bill would have serious consequences for boards, patients and communities. The Health Committee recognised that. Its report refers to the New Zealand model of governance arrangements, which I agree is potentially relevant. The issues are complex and we would wish to give such a proposal careful consideration. However, it is not reflected in the bill and we are advised that amendments along those lines would be beyond the scope of the present bill. As I have made clear, we should not in any case seek to change NHS governance arrangements in a hurry and without proper consideration, dialogue and consultation. That is why we have shown our willingness to look further at piloting the concept.

My second reason for opposing the bill is that, as the Health Committee recognises in paragraph 85 of its report, it risks putting difficulties in the way of implementing the important national policies for which the Executive has a mandate and which the Parliament has already debated.

We need look no further than "Delivering for Health", the implementation of which represents a vital step in the NHS's progression. At the moment, we are deeply engaged in that work. With all respect to everyone who is directly involved, the task of working through those changes is difficult enough, without our making it even more difficult by electing boards in the manner proposed.

It is worth noting that the Health Committee has accepted that directly elected members on NHS boards might undermine the NHS's national element. As it stands, the bill risks fragmenting our national health service and will make it increasingly difficult to ensure that key national policies that are vital to our local communities are implemented. That undermines the vision that we all share for the NHS in Scotland of having equitable services that are available to everyone on the same basis throughout the country. It risks introducing an unacceptable postcode pattern of delivery; could cause real problems for initiatives to reduce health inequalities; and could mean that services such as mental health that have a lower public profile and services for learning disabled people have less of a priority.

Simply electing people to a board would not remove the need for tough decisions to be taken. Such decisions would still have to be made, and public concern about them would not magically disappear with the introduction of direct health board elections. Boards would still need to inform their public; to persuade them that it is right to modernise services; to improve efficiency and effectiveness; and to ensure that services are safe and sustainable. I am worried that the proposal to elect a majority of board members runs the risk of increasing dangerous short-termism and self-interest in how NHS services are looked at, and might ultimately put patients at risk.

My third reason for opposing the bill is that it will do nothing to sustain and promote the improvements in NHS performance that we have witnessed over the past five years. For example, the service has managed to get on top of the long waits that used to dominate our debates about it. Moreover, the tremendous strides in providing more vital operations such as hip and knee replacements and cataract operations have been achieved through rigorous management and planning and by boards working together across boundaries. I do not believe that the bill would benefit patients and the public by improving performance further. On the contrary, the risk is that boards would be distracted from that task.

Fourthly, the proposed elections would cost money and time. The Health Committee has accepted that its costs would be well above the estimates that were provided by the bill's promoters and we must be very careful about diverting resources away from patient care.

Fifthly, the bill would not—to put it simply—do what it says on the tin. It would not promote effective public engagement and the involvement of patients and service users in our NHS, even though that is what those who support the bill seek to achieve. I make it very clear that we strongly support the effective engagement of the public and patients with NHS boards in planning and delivering services and that our track record in that respect is very strong.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman): Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-5478, in the name of Bill Butler, that the Parliament agrees to the general principles of the Health Boar...
Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab): Lab
First, I wish to draw attention to my entry in the register of members' interests relating to the financial support given to me by Unison to aid the developm...
Mr David Davidson (North East Scotland) (Con): Con
Bill Butler said that he would be prepared to accept various amendments at stage 2, but what would he do if health boards as we know them were abolished? The...
Bill Butler: Lab
I believe that the CHPs are not inimical to the reasonable reform that I have suggested. In response to David Davidson's first question, I point out that no ...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind): Ind
The member has pointed out the need for democracy, openness and accountability. Might they not be provided by a better system of accountability and report ba...
Bill Butler: Lab
The improvements that have taken place in public participation—I think that that is what the member alludes to—are to be welcomed. In fact, every witness who...
The Minister for Health and Community Care (Mr Andy Kerr): Lab
It is perhaps no surprise to anyone in the chamber that the Executive is opposed to the bill. I will spend some time explaining the reasons for our position....
Brian Adam (Aberdeen North) (SNP): SNP
Why does the minister think that it is perfectly acceptable for Edinburgh's man in Glasgow, for example, to be accountable to the public through the minister...
Mr Kerr: Lab
Because it is the national health service. Week after week in this chamber I hear from members about postcode prescribing, about boards not doing what they s...
Bill Butler: Lab
Does the minister agree that the estimated cost of £5 million, which is at the top end of the Executive's approximations, would be a drop in the ocean compar...
Mr Kerr: Lab
Yes, it does. However, the Electoral Reform Society does not believe in Mr Butler's approach to the elections, which could be even more expensive than has be...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Lab
You should be finishing now, minister.
Mr Kerr: Lab
The bill is emphatically not the answer to the concerns that have been expressed. Our opposition to the bill is long standing and principled and there are go...
Shona Robison (Dundee East) (SNP): SNP
I pay tribute to the work of Bill Butler and his bill team in developing the bill.The Scottish National Party has supported the principle of direct elections...
Margo MacDonald: Ind
I simply want us to get our statistics in order. Do we know what percentage of the public is satisfied that they are properly represented in the decisions th...
Shona Robison: SNP
I am sure that there are a number of views about that and that many members of the public feel that they are not properly represented in the Parliament's dec...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD): LD
I am surprised by what the member has said, because it is my understanding that Bill Butler is not willing to discuss having a fair voting system and that we...
Shona Robison: SNP
Mr Rumbles knows how the Parliament works. It is a question of trying to persuade people of the merits of one's arguments at stage 2. That is all one can do....
Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab): Lab
Will the member give way on that point?
Shona Robison: SNP
I have taken two interventions and I need to make some progress. Interruption.
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Lab
The member is not taking an intervention.
Shona Robison: SNP
Surely the same arguments and concerns could be raised against involving the democratic process in the management of education or social work. Even so, I ass...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Lab
The member should be closing.
Shona Robison: SNP
Surely that option is preferable to that which the minister is taking in fudging the issue by calling for pilots. Clearly, he is diametrically opposed to the...
Mrs Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con): Con
I came to the stage 1 consideration of the bill with a completely open mind. I fully understand Bill Butler's reasons for introducing it. Over the past year ...
Mike Rumbles: LD
Will the member take an intervention?
Mrs Milne: Con
No. There have been exceptions, including the fight to retain the option of giving birth in community hospitals in Aboyne and Fraserburgh in Aberdeenshire. I...
Mr Kerr: Lab
Is the member aware that, in all the major configurations—including the one that Lewis Macdonald conducted in Lanarkshire—major concessions were made in favo...
Mrs Milne: Con
I hear what the minister is saying, but I am dealing with a point on Aberdeenshire. The outcome in that case was successful, but only because of a committed ...
Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): LD
Will Nanette Milne give way?