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Chamber

Plenary, 31 Jan 2007

31 Jan 2007 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Health Board Elections (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Butler, Bill Lab Glasgow Anniesland Watch on SPTV
First, I wish to draw attention to my entry in the register of members' interests relating to the financial support given to me by Unison to aid the development of the Health Board Elections (Scotland) Bill that is before the Parliament today.

I wish to record my thanks to the 160 individuals and organisations who took part in the consultation on the bill proposal, and the various organisations that took part in the ad hoc bill steering group, such as Voluntary Health Scotland, the National Childbirth Trust, the Scottish Trades Union Congress, the Royal National Institute of the Blind Scotland, Capability Scotland and Help the Aged Scotland. Their contributions have been invaluable. There has also been support from the printed media, most notably from the Evening Times and The Herald, for which I am duly grateful.

I welcome the Health Committee's stage 1 report and the diligence of all its members in their detailed interrogation of the bill at stage 1. I am pleased that the committee recommends that Parliament should agree to the general principles of the bill and allow it to go forward to stage 2. However, I am very aware that the committee expressed several continuing concerns in three specific areas, and voiced its belief that changes should be considered in those areas if the bill is to proceed to stage 2. If I may, I will address those concerns and make an initial response to them.

To quote the committee report, the first issue is:

"The absence of any remuneration, loss of earnings or expenses for elected members discriminates against people with low earnings and favours candidates who are retired and well off."

When I appeared before the committee on 14 November, I acknowledged in response to a question from my colleague Helen Eadie that the lack of remuneration or compensation for loss of earnings was a gap, and that I would seek to bridge that gap at stage 2. That is still my intention. My suggestion will probably centre on introducing loss of earnings compensation capped at just over £7,000 per annum, which is the average for appointing members to health boards. Given that members will serve an average of three days per calendar month, that would mean that people who earn up to £80,000 per annum could put themselves forward to serve. I hope that such a proposition would be at least a starting point for debate in the Health Committee at stage 2, and I thank the committee for pointing out that omission.

The second area in which I agree with the committee that more discussion is needed concerns the bill's proposal to have 14 constituencies mirroring the existing 14 area NHS board boundaries. I was struck by the apprehensions that were voiced by several colleagues on the committee, particularly Kate Maclean and Roseanna Cunningham, that such constituencies would not accurately reflect the diverse geographical areas that many national health service boards encompass. I am open to the suggestion on page 15 of the Health Committee's report that

"it would be fairer to sub-divide those board areas into a number of more representative electoral ‘wards'. These smaller areas could for example reflect local authority boundaries or the rural:urban characteristics of particular board areas."

I am only too happy to discuss with the committee at stage 2 how such an amended geography could be effected. I have no problem with that notion in principle. My legal adviser, Mike Dailly of the Govan law centre, has been turning his mind to that very matter, among others, in anticipation of stage 2.

The third area of concern that was raised by the committee—the percentage of board members to be directly elected—might prove to be more challenging. I agree with the committee that there is a debate to be had on that, but I remain of the view that 50 per cent plus one, or a simple majority, would produce a reasonable blend of appointed members with their experience of the NHS and a directly elected element that would inject a welcome degree of direct accountability to the workings of the board. However, if the bill proceeds to stage 2, I stand ready and willing to enter into the debate on the matter in a spirit of collegiality.

I believe that there is strong support across Scottish society for the introduction of direct public elections to Scotland's NHS boards. I also believe that the case for greater democracy, accountability and transparency in the decision-making process for local health services is compelling. I continue to believe that the best way to achieve greater accountability and transparency is through the introduction of direct public elections.

The Health Board Elections (Scotland) Bill would significantly increase public involvement in local NHS services. It would involve people in the planning and delivery of health care services in their communities. The bill's main aim of introducing more democracy into the operation of health boards does not mean—I emphasise this—that I believe that all board decisions are necessarily wrong and detrimental to local health services. That would be absurd.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman): Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-5478, in the name of Bill Butler, that the Parliament agrees to the general principles of the Health Boar...
Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab): Lab
First, I wish to draw attention to my entry in the register of members' interests relating to the financial support given to me by Unison to aid the developm...
Mr David Davidson (North East Scotland) (Con): Con
Bill Butler said that he would be prepared to accept various amendments at stage 2, but what would he do if health boards as we know them were abolished? The...
Bill Butler: Lab
I believe that the CHPs are not inimical to the reasonable reform that I have suggested. In response to David Davidson's first question, I point out that no ...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind): Ind
The member has pointed out the need for democracy, openness and accountability. Might they not be provided by a better system of accountability and report ba...
Bill Butler: Lab
The improvements that have taken place in public participation—I think that that is what the member alludes to—are to be welcomed. In fact, every witness who...
The Minister for Health and Community Care (Mr Andy Kerr): Lab
It is perhaps no surprise to anyone in the chamber that the Executive is opposed to the bill. I will spend some time explaining the reasons for our position....
Brian Adam (Aberdeen North) (SNP): SNP
Why does the minister think that it is perfectly acceptable for Edinburgh's man in Glasgow, for example, to be accountable to the public through the minister...
Mr Kerr: Lab
Because it is the national health service. Week after week in this chamber I hear from members about postcode prescribing, about boards not doing what they s...
Bill Butler: Lab
Does the minister agree that the estimated cost of £5 million, which is at the top end of the Executive's approximations, would be a drop in the ocean compar...
Mr Kerr: Lab
Yes, it does. However, the Electoral Reform Society does not believe in Mr Butler's approach to the elections, which could be even more expensive than has be...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Lab
You should be finishing now, minister.
Mr Kerr: Lab
The bill is emphatically not the answer to the concerns that have been expressed. Our opposition to the bill is long standing and principled and there are go...
Shona Robison (Dundee East) (SNP): SNP
I pay tribute to the work of Bill Butler and his bill team in developing the bill.The Scottish National Party has supported the principle of direct elections...
Margo MacDonald: Ind
I simply want us to get our statistics in order. Do we know what percentage of the public is satisfied that they are properly represented in the decisions th...
Shona Robison: SNP
I am sure that there are a number of views about that and that many members of the public feel that they are not properly represented in the Parliament's dec...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD): LD
I am surprised by what the member has said, because it is my understanding that Bill Butler is not willing to discuss having a fair voting system and that we...
Shona Robison: SNP
Mr Rumbles knows how the Parliament works. It is a question of trying to persuade people of the merits of one's arguments at stage 2. That is all one can do....
Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab): Lab
Will the member give way on that point?
Shona Robison: SNP
I have taken two interventions and I need to make some progress. Interruption.
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Lab
The member is not taking an intervention.
Shona Robison: SNP
Surely the same arguments and concerns could be raised against involving the democratic process in the management of education or social work. Even so, I ass...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Lab
The member should be closing.
Shona Robison: SNP
Surely that option is preferable to that which the minister is taking in fudging the issue by calling for pilots. Clearly, he is diametrically opposed to the...
Mrs Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con): Con
I came to the stage 1 consideration of the bill with a completely open mind. I fully understand Bill Butler's reasons for introducing it. Over the past year ...
Mike Rumbles: LD
Will the member take an intervention?
Mrs Milne: Con
No. There have been exceptions, including the fight to retain the option of giving birth in community hospitals in Aboyne and Fraserburgh in Aberdeenshire. I...
Mr Kerr: Lab
Is the member aware that, in all the major configurations—including the one that Lewis Macdonald conducted in Lanarkshire—major concessions were made in favo...
Mrs Milne: Con
I hear what the minister is saying, but I am dealing with a point on Aberdeenshire. The outcome in that case was successful, but only because of a committed ...
Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): LD
Will Nanette Milne give way?