Chamber
Plenary, 21 Dec 2006
21 Dec 2006 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Post Offices
I welcomed Alistair Darling's statement last week in the House of Commons—the primary forum for a debate of this nature—in which he set out a clear strategy for the preservation of our national post office network.
We all appreciate that the network must change and adapt if it is to meet the needs of citizens in 21st century Britain. The notion that Government can ignore how citizens choose to do business, which some members have promoted, is laughable.
Of course we must acknowledge—as many members of all parties have done—the post office network's role in the economic and social well-being of our islands. In my constituency in the Western Isles, some 64 post offices serve 28,000 people. Some members' comments on rural Scotland seemed to suggest that people who are fortunate enough to live in rural or island Scotland are incapable of embracing new ways of doing business in an ever-changing world, but I can happily report that my constituents are more than capable of embracing change in their lives and work and in how they engage with public services.
On the island of Great Bernera, off the Isle of Lewis, the community faces the prospect of losing its post office. However, because the community is part of the initiative at the edge programme, it has found innovative and sound ways of delivering public services. At the modernised village hall site, the local authority has based a couple of development officers, the health board has constructed a surgery for visiting general practitioners and the fire board bases its volunteers' fire tender. The pre-school facility and local historical society are on the same campus. The approach demonstrates sensible and pragmatic thinking about how to share costs. Such innovative and practical action helps to sustain and maintain services in areas that are distant from the headquarters of the council, the fire board, the health board and the Post Office.
For far too long, public agencies have presided over the demise of many communities, but as a result of programmes such as the initiative at the edge, agencies are working together to provide services in places like the Western Isles and the west Highlands—all it took was insistence that public servants sit down together to discuss their plans and priorities and how to refigure and deliver services. The postal service is no different. It must ensure that it finds ways of providing services throughout the country. It is doing that, but four million fewer people are using post offices than were using them two years ago, as I think Duncan McNeil said.
John Swinney, who moved the motion, blamed Government and claimed that Government has decided to "engineer the closure" of post offices. He did not acknowledge the £150 million per annum that has been paid to post offices since 1997, although his colleague Alasdair Morgan had the good grace to acknowledge that contribution. Mr Swinney went on to berate citizens for using modern methods to receive pensions and benefits. He said that the Government should encourage more transactions. He wants people in nationalist Scotland to go back to queuing in the rain for their pensions and benefits—[Interruption.] I applaud Duncan McNeil's humorous dissection of the fallacies that the nationalists promote. I hear the nationalists shouting from the sidelines, but I will not comment on the dreary and mournful dirge from Richard Lochhead.
Sylvia Jackson rightly referred to the prospect of substantial investment, subject to European state-aid approval, of up to £1.7 billion over the next five years, to support the post office network and enable it to be rationalised, modernised and placed on a more stable footing.
The UK Government wants the Post Office to identify opportunities and to set up 500 innovative outlets for small communities, which will include mobile post offices. For 60 years, the Royal Bank of Scotland has provided banking services to Western Isles villages. Last year it bought a new fleet of mobile banks, which bristle with the latest technology. Although there is understandable attachment to bricks and mortar—or stone and lime, in the Western Isles—we must embrace new ways of doing business.
I hope that Alistair Darling, in discussion with the Post Office, will urge it to extend the mobile post office pilot, which currently runs in Wick, serving five villages. I have great confidence in the secretary of state and his commitment to the post office network. I urge him to examine the Western Isles and west Highlands in considering ways of delivering postal services in rural Scotland. I urge members to support Sylvia Jackson's amendment.
We all appreciate that the network must change and adapt if it is to meet the needs of citizens in 21st century Britain. The notion that Government can ignore how citizens choose to do business, which some members have promoted, is laughable.
Of course we must acknowledge—as many members of all parties have done—the post office network's role in the economic and social well-being of our islands. In my constituency in the Western Isles, some 64 post offices serve 28,000 people. Some members' comments on rural Scotland seemed to suggest that people who are fortunate enough to live in rural or island Scotland are incapable of embracing new ways of doing business in an ever-changing world, but I can happily report that my constituents are more than capable of embracing change in their lives and work and in how they engage with public services.
On the island of Great Bernera, off the Isle of Lewis, the community faces the prospect of losing its post office. However, because the community is part of the initiative at the edge programme, it has found innovative and sound ways of delivering public services. At the modernised village hall site, the local authority has based a couple of development officers, the health board has constructed a surgery for visiting general practitioners and the fire board bases its volunteers' fire tender. The pre-school facility and local historical society are on the same campus. The approach demonstrates sensible and pragmatic thinking about how to share costs. Such innovative and practical action helps to sustain and maintain services in areas that are distant from the headquarters of the council, the fire board, the health board and the Post Office.
For far too long, public agencies have presided over the demise of many communities, but as a result of programmes such as the initiative at the edge, agencies are working together to provide services in places like the Western Isles and the west Highlands—all it took was insistence that public servants sit down together to discuss their plans and priorities and how to refigure and deliver services. The postal service is no different. It must ensure that it finds ways of providing services throughout the country. It is doing that, but four million fewer people are using post offices than were using them two years ago, as I think Duncan McNeil said.
John Swinney, who moved the motion, blamed Government and claimed that Government has decided to "engineer the closure" of post offices. He did not acknowledge the £150 million per annum that has been paid to post offices since 1997, although his colleague Alasdair Morgan had the good grace to acknowledge that contribution. Mr Swinney went on to berate citizens for using modern methods to receive pensions and benefits. He said that the Government should encourage more transactions. He wants people in nationalist Scotland to go back to queuing in the rain for their pensions and benefits—[Interruption.] I applaud Duncan McNeil's humorous dissection of the fallacies that the nationalists promote. I hear the nationalists shouting from the sidelines, but I will not comment on the dreary and mournful dirge from Richard Lochhead.
Sylvia Jackson rightly referred to the prospect of substantial investment, subject to European state-aid approval, of up to £1.7 billion over the next five years, to support the post office network and enable it to be rationalised, modernised and placed on a more stable footing.
The UK Government wants the Post Office to identify opportunities and to set up 500 innovative outlets for small communities, which will include mobile post offices. For 60 years, the Royal Bank of Scotland has provided banking services to Western Isles villages. Last year it bought a new fleet of mobile banks, which bristle with the latest technology. Although there is understandable attachment to bricks and mortar—or stone and lime, in the Western Isles—we must embrace new ways of doing business.
I hope that Alistair Darling, in discussion with the Post Office, will urge it to extend the mobile post office pilot, which currently runs in Wick, serving five villages. I have great confidence in the secretary of state and his commitment to the post office network. I urge him to examine the Western Isles and west Highlands in considering ways of delivering postal services in rural Scotland. I urge members to support Sylvia Jackson's amendment.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Murray Tosh):
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-5349, in the name of John Swinney, on post offices.
Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP):
SNP
This debate is an opportunity for the Parliament to express its concern about the future of the post office network in Scotland and the sweeping changes that...
Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab):
Lab
I am pleased to speak in this debate. My constituency is both urban and rural, and constituents, particularly those belonging to the National Federation of S...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I welcome the debate. As we have heard, the future of the rural sub-post office network is a vital issue for much of Scotland. I appreciate that support for ...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Given what the member has just said, and given the impact of the issue on vulnerable communities, does the member not find it quite disgraceful that not a si...
Murdo Fraser:
Con
Christine Grahame makes a fair point. The motion and the Labour amendment refer to the Scottish Executive but no one is here to represent the Executive's vie...
Dr Jackson:
Lab
Will the member give way?
Murdo Fraser:
Con
I would like to make some progress, if I may. The Labour Government uses as its excuse for those closures the fact that post office revenue has declined. The...
Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab):
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Murdo Fraser:
Con
I am afraid that I am in my last minute, Mr McNeil. The Government introduced the Post Office card account then pledged to discontinue it but, in the teeth o...
Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD):
LD
The future of our post offices is an important, although reserved issue. Research by the Liberal Democrat party indicates that between 1999 and this year, ju...
Murdo Fraser:
Con
Is it still Liberal Democrat policy to privatise the Post Office?
Euan Robson:
LD
It is not and never has been Liberal Democrat policy to privatise the Post Office, and Mr Fraser is clearly mistaken in his view that it was.The UK Governmen...
Carolyn Leckie (Central Scotland) (SSP):
SSP
It is important to place the debate in context, including a political context. The Central Scotland region lost a total of 19 post offices in the most recent...
Richard Lochhead (Moray) (SNP):
SNP
I am delighted that the SNP has chosen to debate this vital issue, but I am extremely disappointed that ministers have chosen to be absent. That shows contem...
Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab):
Lab
Presiding Officer, if you will indulge me, I will welcome to the Parliament the pupils from Earnhill primary school in my constituency. I am sure that everyo...
Mr Swinney:
SNP
Look behind you!
Mr McNeil:
Lab
How would the story go if the fairy godmother across the Thames—possibly played by Ian Krankie, with Jimmy Krankie as Nicola—waved her magic wand and made Sc...
Mr Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green):
Green
I am grateful to the SNP for giving us another opportunity to discuss in the chamber the future of the post office network.The motion that we are debating re...
Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD):
LD
Post offices are the lifeblood of communities in both rural and urban areas, particularly when they are combined with other services, such as the local shop....
Richard Lochhead:
SNP
If the Liberal Democrats take the issue so seriously, why are their ministers absent from today's important debate?
Nora Radcliffe:
LD
That is not worth answering.The UK Government will not extend its card contract beyond 2010, claiming that it never intended to renew the POCA contract. That...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
You should finish now, Ms Radcliffe.
Nora Radcliffe:
LD
Post offices play a crucial role in the community, particularly in rural areas, and must be protected. Much could and should be done to maintain a unique net...
Ms Rosemary Byrne (South of Scotland) (Sol):
Sol
I welcome the debate, which provides an opportunity to discuss the future of the post office network.Over the past few months I have visited a number of sub-...
Alasdair Morgan (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
One of the roots of the problem is that there has been not a lack of Government support but a lack of consistent Government support for the post office netwo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
We move to winding-up speeches. Carolyn Leckie has a tight four minutes.
Carolyn Leckie:
SSP
I will do my best to stay within that time.I want to pick up on issues that I did not have time to talk about earlier. A big argument, on the wider impact of...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
You should be finishing now, Ms Leckie.
Carolyn Leckie:
SSP
What is the position of Labour MSPs? None of them has commented on that. Will Labour members support the position of the 39 Labour MPs who opposed the franch...