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Chamber

Plenary, 21 Dec 2006

21 Dec 2006 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Post Offices
One of the roots of the problem is that there has been not a lack of Government support but a lack of consistent Government support for the post office network over the years, and there has been ambivalence about the post office. John Swinney alluded to the fact that when benefits payments through giro books were withdrawn, the facility to get payments via the Post Office card account was introduced, but people had to jump through all sorts of hoops to get them. They had to phone up to get the application form, and then submit it separately. People thought that it was much easier simply to have the money paid to them directly. Of course, the situation then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: the Government can say, "Ah—but no one is using the post office."

The lunacy is that one part of the Government is paying the post office network a subsidy because it is not economic and another part—the TV licence payment collection system—is privatising its operations and taking money away from the post office, presumably so that the Government has to put more subsidy in at the other end. That is the economics of the madhouse.

When Stephen Byers launched the Post Office card account, there was no suggestion that it was time limited and would be around for only 10 years. The House of Commons understood that it would be around for ever, but the project suddenly became time limited and the Government has had to do a U-turn. What has happened has resulted in huge uncertainty for people who use post offices and for people who run them.

One of the biggest causes of post office closures is that replacement postmasters or postmistresses cannot be found when postmasters or postmistresses retire. There is no wonder that they cannot be found if people do not know whether there will be a business for them to run. That cause is, of course, the easiest cause for the Post Office to defend. It says, "We can't get anyone to do the job," and the Government says, "Nobody wants to run post offices." They simply wring their hands as if the matter had nothing to do with them, but the problems that we face stem from the complete lack of a coherent Government strategy. We must say what post offices are for first and then decide what action to take.

The Post Office was given a duty not to make avoidable closures after 1997, but nobody defined "avoidable closure". Without it being said what post offices should exist for, that duty meant nothing.

Euan Robson spoke about an issue that has not been explored nearly enough—sharing of services. The odd post office is run from a pub or a back room and services are occasionally shared, but no coherent strategy on that exists. Things simply happen in certain places by accident. We must consider the local delivery of Government and council services in rural areas, including post office services, and we must try to ensure that all of them—even though they may not be economical—are run sensibly. We must see post offices as part of our infrastructure. We do not stop tarmacking rural roads—at least some of them—because not many cars run on them, although we may have to deal with that matter once road charging kicks in. Post offices are as vital for local industry as roads are. As long as we continue to consider the post office network in isolation or simply as part of a business rather than as part of our essential infrastructure, we will have to come back to Parliament to fight to defend it. We must take a coherent approach.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Murray Tosh): Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-5349, in the name of John Swinney, on post offices.
Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP): SNP
This debate is an opportunity for the Parliament to express its concern about the future of the post office network in Scotland and the sweeping changes that...
Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): Lab
I am pleased to speak in this debate. My constituency is both urban and rural, and constituents, particularly those belonging to the National Federation of S...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): Con
I welcome the debate. As we have heard, the future of the rural sub-post office network is a vital issue for much of Scotland. I appreciate that support for ...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
Given what the member has just said, and given the impact of the issue on vulnerable communities, does the member not find it quite disgraceful that not a si...
Murdo Fraser: Con
Christine Grahame makes a fair point. The motion and the Labour amendment refer to the Scottish Executive but no one is here to represent the Executive's vie...
Dr Jackson: Lab
Will the member give way?
Murdo Fraser: Con
I would like to make some progress, if I may. The Labour Government uses as its excuse for those closures the fact that post office revenue has declined. The...
Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab): Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Murdo Fraser: Con
I am afraid that I am in my last minute, Mr McNeil. The Government introduced the Post Office card account then pledged to discontinue it but, in the teeth o...
Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD): LD
The future of our post offices is an important, although reserved issue. Research by the Liberal Democrat party indicates that between 1999 and this year, ju...
Murdo Fraser: Con
Is it still Liberal Democrat policy to privatise the Post Office?
Euan Robson: LD
It is not and never has been Liberal Democrat policy to privatise the Post Office, and Mr Fraser is clearly mistaken in his view that it was.The UK Governmen...
Carolyn Leckie (Central Scotland) (SSP): SSP
It is important to place the debate in context, including a political context. The Central Scotland region lost a total of 19 post offices in the most recent...
Richard Lochhead (Moray) (SNP): SNP
I am delighted that the SNP has chosen to debate this vital issue, but I am extremely disappointed that ministers have chosen to be absent. That shows contem...
Mr Duncan McNeil (Greenock and Inverclyde) (Lab): Lab
Presiding Officer, if you will indulge me, I will welcome to the Parliament the pupils from Earnhill primary school in my constituency. I am sure that everyo...
Mr Swinney: SNP
Look behind you!
Mr McNeil: Lab
How would the story go if the fairy godmother across the Thames—possibly played by Ian Krankie, with Jimmy Krankie as Nicola—waved her magic wand and made Sc...
Mr Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green): Green
I am grateful to the SNP for giving us another opportunity to discuss in the chamber the future of the post office network.The motion that we are debating re...
Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD): LD
Post offices are the lifeblood of communities in both rural and urban areas, particularly when they are combined with other services, such as the local shop....
Richard Lochhead: SNP
If the Liberal Democrats take the issue so seriously, why are their ministers absent from today's important debate?
Nora Radcliffe: LD
That is not worth answering.The UK Government will not extend its card contract beyond 2010, claiming that it never intended to renew the POCA contract. That...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman): Lab
You should finish now, Ms Radcliffe.
Nora Radcliffe: LD
Post offices play a crucial role in the community, particularly in rural areas, and must be protected. Much could and should be done to maintain a unique net...
Ms Rosemary Byrne (South of Scotland) (Sol): Sol
I welcome the debate, which provides an opportunity to discuss the future of the post office network.Over the past few months I have visited a number of sub-...
Alasdair Morgan (South of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
One of the roots of the problem is that there has been not a lack of Government support but a lack of consistent Government support for the post office netwo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Lab
We move to winding-up speeches. Carolyn Leckie has a tight four minutes.
Carolyn Leckie: SSP
I will do my best to stay within that time.I want to pick up on issues that I did not have time to talk about earlier. A big argument, on the wider impact of...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Lab
You should be finishing now, Ms Leckie.
Carolyn Leckie: SSP
What is the position of Labour MSPs? None of them has commented on that. Will Labour members support the position of the 39 Labour MPs who opposed the franch...