Chamber
Plenary, 14 Dec 2006
14 Dec 2006 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Mr Swinney raises an important issue that is at the centre of the bill. The Justice 2 Committee spent a lot of its time considering conduct complaints, and its report highlighted the fact that the Executive's initial consultation showed that the public's overwhelming preference was for all complaints to be considered by a wholly independent complaints commission, which is what we are discussing now.
The separation between conduct complaints on the one hand and service complaints on the other reflects the current Law Society-designated categories. We heard a great deal of evidence from the Law Society, the Faculty of Advocates and others suggesting that the distinction between what is a service complaint and what is a conduct complaint is often not at all clear. I readily admit that there are different ways of handling the matter. The Faculty of Advocates more or less admitted that there was a big problem in making the distinction, but it boldly concluded that it was better to leave all complaints with the faculty—although I think that it is fair to say that the entire committee rejected that suggestion.
Like Mr Swinney, I accept that the Parliament has already considered the idea of the Scottish legal complaints commission dealing with all complaints, both service and conduct. The Parliament has made clear its view that it wants the two kinds of complaint to be handled separately, and I do not wish to reopen that argument at this stage. However, David Davidson says that he cannot support amendment 5 because he thinks that it might queer the pitch, so to speak, of the independence of the commission. I read amendment 5 as providing that a report can be written by the commission on those complaints that the commission itself will not be handling—the conduct complaints that will be handled by the Law Society.
Mr Swinney's amendments seek to ensure that the public's concerns that were raised in the initial consultations are assuaged. A review of and a report to Parliament on conduct complaints is indeed the way forward. I would be happy to support amendment 5.
The separation between conduct complaints on the one hand and service complaints on the other reflects the current Law Society-designated categories. We heard a great deal of evidence from the Law Society, the Faculty of Advocates and others suggesting that the distinction between what is a service complaint and what is a conduct complaint is often not at all clear. I readily admit that there are different ways of handling the matter. The Faculty of Advocates more or less admitted that there was a big problem in making the distinction, but it boldly concluded that it was better to leave all complaints with the faculty—although I think that it is fair to say that the entire committee rejected that suggestion.
Like Mr Swinney, I accept that the Parliament has already considered the idea of the Scottish legal complaints commission dealing with all complaints, both service and conduct. The Parliament has made clear its view that it wants the two kinds of complaint to be handled separately, and I do not wish to reopen that argument at this stage. However, David Davidson says that he cannot support amendment 5 because he thinks that it might queer the pitch, so to speak, of the independence of the commission. I read amendment 5 as providing that a report can be written by the commission on those complaints that the commission itself will not be handling—the conduct complaints that will be handled by the Law Society.
Mr Swinney's amendments seek to ensure that the public's concerns that were raised in the initial consultations are assuaged. A review of and a report to Parliament on conduct complaints is indeed the way forward. I would be happy to support amendment 5.
In the same item of business
Resumed debate.
Section 23—Duty of Commission to make rules as to practice and procedure
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
Group 17 is about publication of and consultation on rules as to the commission's practice and procedure. Amendment 66, in the name of David Davidson, is gro...
Mr Davidson:
Con
Amendments 66 and 67 enhance accountability and transparency, which is essential in a process as technical as the workings of the Scottish Legal Complaints C...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
We continue this afternoon as we started this morning.Amendment 69 adds the Lord President to the list of those whom the commission is required to consult be...
Mr Davidson:
Con
I thank the minister for understanding what we are seeking to do to improve the bill. I very much welcome her support in these matters.
Amendment 66 agreed to.
Amendments 67 and 68 moved—Mr David Davidson—and agreed to.
Amendment 69 moved—Johann Lamont—and agreed to.
Amendment 70 moved—Mr David Davidson—and agreed to.
After section 27
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
Group 18 is on a report to Scottish ministers on conduct complaints. Amendment 5, in the name of John Swinney, is grouped with amendment 7.
Mr Swinney:
SNP
One of the matters discussed at length during consideration of the bill at stages 1 and 2 was whether complaints about services and conduct should be handled...
Mr Davidson:
Con
I am afraid that I cannot support John Swinney's amendment 5, for the simple reason that what he proposes involves a conflict of interests. If he is so keen ...
Colin Fox (Lothians) (SSP):
SSP
Mr Swinney raises an important issue that is at the centre of the bill. The Justice 2 Committee spent a lot of its time considering conduct complaints, and i...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
Amendment 5 has some attraction, in so far as it would require the commission to review its operations after its first two years. We commend such reviews as ...
Mr Swinney:
SNP
David Davidson seems to have fundamentally misunderstood or misread amendment 5. I am almost tempted to allow him to make a further speech in case he is more...
Members:
No.
Mr Swinney:
SNP
My colleagues are encouraging me not to be so generous, so I should perhaps withdraw that offer.The purpose of amendment 5 is not to ensure that the commissi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
The question is, that amendment 5 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members:
No.
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
There will be a division. There will be a five-minute suspension to allow members to come into the chamber.
Meeting suspended.
On resuming—
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
We will proceed with the division on amendment 5, in the name of John Swinney.
ForAdam, Brian (Aberdeen North) (SNP) Baird, Shiona (North East Scotland) (Green) Ballance, Chris (South of Scotland) (Green) Ballard, Mark (Lothians) (Green...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
The result of the division is: For 33, Against 71, Abstentions 1.
Amendment 5 disagreed to.
Section 28—Obtaining of information from relevant professional organisations
Amendment 71 moved—David Davidson.