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Chamber

Plenary, 14 Dec 2006

14 Dec 2006 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
One of the matters discussed at length during consideration of the bill at stages 1 and 2 was whether complaints about services and conduct should be handled by the same body or different bodies. The Government proposes that service complaints should be handled by the Scottish legal services commission and that conduct complaints should be handled by the relevant professional organisations.

I moved a series of amendments at stage 2 to try to ensure that all complaints, whether they were about service or conduct, were handled by the Scottish legal complaints commission because I believed that that would fulfil the Government's commitment to an open and transparent process that would build public confidence. Those amendments were not successful at stage 2.

I have proposed in amendments 5 and 7 that the effectiveness, workability and performance of the separation of service and conduct complaints be reviewed after two years and subject to a report by the commission to ministers. There are two elements to the argument for doing that. The first is that however hard ministers try to make the distinction between service and conduct complaints, it is not quite as neat as everybody thinks. I was struck by some of the evidence that we heard in committee that members of the public invariably find that their complaints start off as service complaints and end up as conduct complaints. If that is the pattern, we would find that different bodies would be looking at different elements of one complaint. That would disrupt the comprehensive assessment of complaints that members of the public want.

Also in evidence to the committee, the former Scottish legal services ombudsman, Mrs Costelloe Baker, said that in her opinion—based on her experience of dealing with such cases—the split between service and conduct complaints confused members of the public. Therefore, it would be beneficial to look at complaints in their totality to achieve an integrated approach.

The second element of the argument is about the performance of the professional organisations in dealing with complaints. Only recently, the Law Society of Scotland had to wipe clean the disciplinary records of about 250 solicitors whom it had reprimanded because the Law Society's actions were deemed to be illegal. The charge that was levelled at over 250 solicitors was one of unsatisfactory conduct. The Law Society has been down the route of trying to exercise disciplinary action and has got itself into a fix. On 13 November, the new Scottish legal services ombudsman, Jane Irvine, published official notices about cases in which the Law Society of Scotland refused to comply with her recommendations on the handling of complaints. I cite those two examples to demonstrate that the professional organisations do not always handle conduct complaints in the most effective fashion.

Instead of going back to the proposals that I made in my stage 2 amendments, which were not supported by the committee, I now seek to insert into the bill a provision similar to the one that Parliament agreed just the other week in the Bankruptcy and Diligence etc (Scotland) Bill. Gordon Jackson's amendment, which was accepted by ministers, proposed a two-year review period to look at the performance of particular elements of that bill. The provisions that I propose in amendments 5 and 7 would require the commission to report to ministers two years after the date on which the act will come into force to assess whether the separation between conduct and service complaints has worked effectively or whether the arrangement needs to be revisited.

The arrangement is worthy of further examination. Based on the Executive's past practice, I look forward to a warm response to my proposals.

I move amendment 5.

In the same item of business

Resumed debate.
Section 23—Duty of Commission to make rules as to practice and procedure
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman): Lab
Group 17 is about publication of and consultation on rules as to the commission's practice and procedure. Amendment 66, in the name of David Davidson, is gro...
Mr Davidson: Con
Amendments 66 and 67 enhance accountability and transparency, which is essential in a process as technical as the workings of the Scottish Legal Complaints C...
Johann Lamont: Lab
We continue this afternoon as we started this morning.Amendment 69 adds the Lord President to the list of those whom the commission is required to consult be...
Mr Davidson: Con
I thank the minister for understanding what we are seeking to do to improve the bill. I very much welcome her support in these matters.
Amendment 66 agreed to.
Amendments 67 and 68 moved—Mr David Davidson—and agreed to.
Amendment 69 moved—Johann Lamont—and agreed to.
Amendment 70 moved—Mr David Davidson—and agreed to.
After section 27
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Lab
Group 18 is on a report to Scottish ministers on conduct complaints. Amendment 5, in the name of John Swinney, is grouped with amendment 7.
Mr Swinney: SNP
One of the matters discussed at length during consideration of the bill at stages 1 and 2 was whether complaints about services and conduct should be handled...
Mr Davidson: Con
I am afraid that I cannot support John Swinney's amendment 5, for the simple reason that what he proposes involves a conflict of interests. If he is so keen ...
Colin Fox (Lothians) (SSP): SSP
Mr Swinney raises an important issue that is at the centre of the bill. The Justice 2 Committee spent a lot of its time considering conduct complaints, and i...
Johann Lamont: Lab
Amendment 5 has some attraction, in so far as it would require the commission to review its operations after its first two years. We commend such reviews as ...
Mr Swinney: SNP
David Davidson seems to have fundamentally misunderstood or misread amendment 5. I am almost tempted to allow him to make a further speech in case he is more...
Members:
No.
Mr Swinney: SNP
My colleagues are encouraging me not to be so generous, so I should perhaps withdraw that offer.The purpose of amendment 5 is not to ensure that the commissi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Lab
The question is, that amendment 5 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members:
No.
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Lab
There will be a division. There will be a five-minute suspension to allow members to come into the chamber.
Meeting suspended.
On resuming—
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Lab
We will proceed with the division on amendment 5, in the name of John Swinney.
ForAdam, Brian (Aberdeen North) (SNP) Baird, Shiona (North East Scotland) (Green) Ballance, Chris (South of Scotland) (Green) Ballard, Mark (Lothians) (Green...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Lab
The result of the division is: For 33, Against 71, Abstentions 1.
Amendment 5 disagreed to.
Section 28—Obtaining of information from relevant professional organisations
Amendment 71 moved—David Davidson.