Chamber
Plenary, 14 Dec 2006
14 Dec 2006 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Amendment 10 seeks to add chairmen of tribunals to the list of public office holders who can make a service complaint to the commission, but it does not define what a chairman of a tribunal is or indicate which tribunals would be covered. Members will note that, because of the large number and variety of tribunals that exist, section 2(1B), which mentions exempting from conduct complaints
"a practitioner acting in a judicial capacity in a court or tribunal",
provides that courts and tribunals would be specified by order by the Scottish ministers. Amendment 10 is therefore unworkable and I invite David Davidson to withdraw it.
Amendment 211 would enable both a sheriff and a tribunal chairman to make a complaint of professional misconduct to the Scottish Solicitors Discipline Tribunal. It seeks to align the list of people in section 51 of the Solicitors (Scotland) Act 1980 who can make a complaint of professional misconduct to the Scottish Solicitors Discipline Tribunal with the list of public office holders in section 2(1A) who will be able to make a service complaint to the commission. However, the amendment is flawed. The reference to "judge" in section 51 of the 1980 act is defined by section 65 of that act to include a sheriff.
Secondly, as I have already explained, a reference to a tribunal chairman would cause difficulty because the term is not defined in statute. That is why section 2(1B) of the bill gives ministers an order-making power to specify the tribunals in which practitioners can be taken to be acting in a judicial capacity and therefore cannot be the subject of a conduct complaint to the commission. Section 2(1A)(b)(iv) refers to
"any judge (including a sheriff)"
because the definition of "judge" in the 1980 act does not apply in the bill.
I invite David Davidson to withdraw amendment 10 and not to move amendment 211.
"a practitioner acting in a judicial capacity in a court or tribunal",
provides that courts and tribunals would be specified by order by the Scottish ministers. Amendment 10 is therefore unworkable and I invite David Davidson to withdraw it.
Amendment 211 would enable both a sheriff and a tribunal chairman to make a complaint of professional misconduct to the Scottish Solicitors Discipline Tribunal. It seeks to align the list of people in section 51 of the Solicitors (Scotland) Act 1980 who can make a complaint of professional misconduct to the Scottish Solicitors Discipline Tribunal with the list of public office holders in section 2(1A) who will be able to make a service complaint to the commission. However, the amendment is flawed. The reference to "judge" in section 51 of the 1980 act is defined by section 65 of that act to include a sheriff.
Secondly, as I have already explained, a reference to a tribunal chairman would cause difficulty because the term is not defined in statute. That is why section 2(1B) of the bill gives ministers an order-making power to specify the tribunals in which practitioners can be taken to be acting in a judicial capacity and therefore cannot be the subject of a conduct complaint to the commission. Section 2(1A)(b)(iv) refers to
"any judge (including a sheriff)"
because the definition of "judge" in the 1980 act does not apply in the bill.
I invite David Davidson to withdraw amendment 10 and not to move amendment 211.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
NPA
The next item of business is stage 3 proceedings on the Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Bill.In dealing with amendments, members should have the bi...
Section 2—Receipt of complaints: preliminary steps
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Group 1 is on circumstances in which a conduct complaint about conveyancing and executry practitioners may be made. Amendment 8, in the name of David Davidso...
Mr David Davidson (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
Amendment 8 seeks to remove section 2(1)(a)(ii), which I believe to be unnecessary, as conveyancing and executry practitioners are already covered by the rul...
The Deputy Minister for Justice (Johann Lamont):
Lab
The Law Reform (Miscellaneous Provisions) (Scotland) Act 1990, which covers the position of conveyancing and executry practitioners, lists conviction of a cr...
Mr Davidson:
Con
I acknowledge the minister's comments. However, I have been advised that conveyancing and executry practitioners would be covered by section 2(1)(a)(i) and w...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
The question is, that amendment 8 be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members:
No.
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
There will be a division. I suspend the meeting for five minutes.
Meeting suspended.
On resuming—
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
We will proceed with the division.
ForAdam, Brian (Aberdeen North) (SNP) Aitken, Bill (Glasgow) (Con) Brownlee, Derek (South of Scotland) (Con) Crawford, Bruce (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP) Da...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
The result of the division is: For 32, Against 61, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 8 disagreed to.
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Group 2 is on determination of eligibility to make a complaint. Amendment 9, in the name of David Davidson, is grouped with amendments 11 to 16, 19, 21, 36 a...
Mr Davidson:
Con
As the Presiding Officer has pointed out, this group of amendments deals with determination of eligibility to make a complaint. In lodging amendment 11, I wa...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I clarify that you have moved only amendment 9 at this stage.
Johann Lamont:
Lab
I am grateful for David Davidson's kindness.Amendment 9 would remove the reference to any provision on rules made by the commission under section 23(1) as to...
Mr Davidson:
Con
As I said earlier, I seek guidance from the minister about what is intended because members of the public, among others, have expressed doubts about what the...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
I hear what Mr Davidson says and I have argued our position on the amendment. That should be sufficient.
Amendment 9, by agreement, withdrawn.
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Group 3 is on persons entitled to make complaint etc. Amendment 10, in the name of David Davidson, is grouped with amendment 211.
Mr Davidson:
Con
Amendments 10 and 211 seek to add sheriffs and tribunal chairs to the list of judges in the bill to ensure consistency.I move amendment 10.
Johann Lamont:
Lab
Amendment 10 seeks to add chairmen of tribunals to the list of public office holders who can make a service complaint to the commission, but it does not defi...
Mr Davidson:
Con
I thank the minister for providing clarity. Now we know that our money goes on good legal advice to our ministers. I accept what she says, and because she ha...
Amendment 10, by agreement, withdrawn.
Section 2A—Existence of specified regulatory scheme
Amendments 11 to 13 not moved.
After section 4