Chamber
Plenary, 07 Dec 2006
07 Dec 2006 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Adoption and Children (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
I accept that, but it was always our intention nevertheless to improve adoption support services generally. As I recognised early in stage 2, the bringing together of the different structures did not produce a terribly cohesive framework in terms of the statutory wording. There has not been a significant policy change in most areas, but we now have a structure that is a bit more thematic and coherent than it was at the beginning of the bill process. I accept that it is difficult to get the scrutiny of complex legislative structures right, but we now have a structure that is capable of taking us forward much more successfully, to provide the coherent services that people who get involved in adoption, from whatever perspective, deserve and ought to have.
We have recognised from the beginning that adoption support is an important area that needs to be improved. When we come to regulation, it is against that background that we want to consider the sort of issues that Ken Macintosh, Adam Ingram and others have talked about, such as addressing patchy service provision across the country. Members will agree that such detailed matters are not for the bill; information will change over time as knowledge increases, so it will be right to include those matters in regulations. I assure members that we will consider the matters that will give flesh to the provisions.
I turn to Adam Ingram's two amendments—amendments 4A and 4B. Apart from the emergency arrangements in section 50, which have already been mentioned, we should consider sections 8(1)(a) and 8(1)(b), and section 8(2), which allows the provision of services without assessment. It is important to consider the longer term; we should not simply deal with people in one moment and then move on. We want to be able to get involved when there are emergencies, so that we can deal immediately with problems, but we also want to be able to make long-term assessments and to maintain our involvement with families. That is what the bill, and the Executive amendments, will allow us to do. Amendments 4A and 4B are not necessary; in fact, if agreed to, they would add confusion to a coherent structure. I therefore urge members to reject Adam Ingram's amendments 4A and 4B—always assuming that he moves them.
We have recognised from the beginning that adoption support is an important area that needs to be improved. When we come to regulation, it is against that background that we want to consider the sort of issues that Ken Macintosh, Adam Ingram and others have talked about, such as addressing patchy service provision across the country. Members will agree that such detailed matters are not for the bill; information will change over time as knowledge increases, so it will be right to include those matters in regulations. I assure members that we will consider the matters that will give flesh to the provisions.
I turn to Adam Ingram's two amendments—amendments 4A and 4B. Apart from the emergency arrangements in section 50, which have already been mentioned, we should consider sections 8(1)(a) and 8(1)(b), and section 8(2), which allows the provision of services without assessment. It is important to consider the longer term; we should not simply deal with people in one moment and then move on. We want to be able to get involved when there are emergencies, so that we can deal immediately with problems, but we also want to be able to make long-term assessments and to maintain our involvement with families. That is what the bill, and the Executive amendments, will allow us to do. Amendments 4A and 4B are not necessary; in fact, if agreed to, they would add confusion to a coherent structure. I therefore urge members to reject Adam Ingram's amendments 4A and 4B—always assuming that he moves them.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
NPA
The next item of business is stage 3 proceedings on the Adoption and Children (Scotland) Bill. Members should have in front of them the bill as amended at st...
Section 1—Duty of local authority to provide adoption support services
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Group 1 is on adoption services. I will put the question on the amendments to amendment 4 before putting the question on amendment 4 itself. Amendment 1, in ...
The Deputy Minister for Education and Young People (Robert Brown):
LD
I echo Lord James's earlier comments by acknowledging that the bill is technically complex, as is reflected by the fairly large number of amendments that are...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Not at all.
Robert Brown:
LD
Amendments 4A and 4B were lodged by Adam Ingram. The purpose of amendment 4A is to include counselling and assistance to birth parents who are considering gi...
Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
The minister will appreciate that we broadly support the Executive's amendments, for the reasons that he expressed; we have discussed these matters at commit...
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con):
Con
I support Adam Ingram's amendment 4A, which would include in the categories that are introduced by amendment 4 the provision for counselling to birth parents...
Mr Kenneth Macintosh (Eastwood) (Lab):
Lab
The media focus on more controversial aspects of the bill has obscured the fact that improving the support that is available to adoptive families is at its h...
Iain Smith (North East Fife) (LD):
LD
I want to put on record the concerns that the Education Committee expressed about the way in which the bill appeared before it at various stages. When stage ...
Robert Brown:
LD
I can assure Iain Smith that there is nothing to stop local authorities working together. That already happens in many aspects of the work that they do.I acc...
Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
Does the minister acknowledge that that was not in the bill at stage 1, and that the redefinition of adoption to include the whole process—pre-adoption, duri...
Robert Brown:
LD
I accept that, but it was always our intention nevertheless to improve adoption support services generally. As I recognised early in stage 2, the bringing to...
Amendment 1 agreed to.
Amendments 2 and 3 moved—Robert Brown—and agreed to.
Amendment 4 moved—Robert Brown.
Amendment 4A moved—Mr Adam Ingram.
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
The question is, that amendment 4A be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members:
No.
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
In that case, there will be a division but we will first suspend for five minutes.
Meeting suspended.
On resuming—
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
We will proceed with the division.
ForAdam, Brian (Aberdeen North) (SNP) Aitken, Bill (Glasgow) (Con) Brownlee, Derek (South of Scotland) (Con) Byrne, Ms Rosemary (South of Scotland) (Sol) Can...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
The result of the division is: For 36, Against 71, Abstentions 0.
Amendment 4A disagreed to.
Amendment 4B moved—Mr Adam Ingram.
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
The question is, that amendment 4B be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members:
No.
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
There will be a division.