Chamber
Plenary, 06 Dec 2006
06 Dec 2006 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Rural Post Offices
I congratulate John Swinney on securing this debate, but the problem with debates on post offices is that we have to revisit the issue so often. If, as Jamie Stone said, the post office is an early-warning system, the Government appears to slip missiles underneath it every few years.
Back in 1999, when the Government launched a white paper on the matter, Stephen Byers said that the Government was committed to supporting post offices that were of "special value" to the community. I asked him at the time to define the term "special value" but, of course, answer came there none. However, he said that the Government would put in place
"a mechanism that will allow local people and local communities to express their view on the value of the post office in their own area."—[Official Report, House of Commons, 15 July 1999; Vol 335, c 642.]
Although people have expressed very successfully their views over the years since then, they seem to have made no difference at all to Government policy.
Through e-commerce, small businesses that set up in rural areas can compete on a level playing field with businesses in urban areas. Many of those businesses produce goods that are ordered on the internet and are then sent out to their customers—by post, 90 per cent of the time. That playing field is no longer level if the small businesses in rural areas have no access to a post office or if the post office is many miles away. It beats me how we can encourage that kind of e-commerce if we do not give people the facilities to carry on their business.
Government support has been removed in many areas. For example, as far as TV licences are concerned, a totally unnecessary switch has been made by a Government department that does not seem to know what another department is doing. Moreover, the Government is now talking about taking away the Post Office card account, which was only dragged out of it kicking and screaming in the midst of much clamour to keep post offices alive.
One of the biggest single factors in the closure of post offices is the lack of sub-postmasters who want to run these businesses. However, would anyone want to run a new business if they had no certainty about their career prospects; if they did not know whether the Government was committed to their network; or if the Government would not confirm whether it was threatening to take away the welcome subsidies that have been put into the network over the past few years? It is no wonder that sub-postmasters are not coming forward.
Even the regulator, the Postal Services Commission, which has only an advisory role with respect to Post Office Counters, said in its last report that the Government had to get a move on and make a decision about the network's future. That decision must be made, but when the Government makes it, it must also set out how its decision will help to sustain rural communities instead of being—as such decisions so often have been—another nail in their coffin.
Back in 1999, when the Government launched a white paper on the matter, Stephen Byers said that the Government was committed to supporting post offices that were of "special value" to the community. I asked him at the time to define the term "special value" but, of course, answer came there none. However, he said that the Government would put in place
"a mechanism that will allow local people and local communities to express their view on the value of the post office in their own area."—[Official Report, House of Commons, 15 July 1999; Vol 335, c 642.]
Although people have expressed very successfully their views over the years since then, they seem to have made no difference at all to Government policy.
Through e-commerce, small businesses that set up in rural areas can compete on a level playing field with businesses in urban areas. Many of those businesses produce goods that are ordered on the internet and are then sent out to their customers—by post, 90 per cent of the time. That playing field is no longer level if the small businesses in rural areas have no access to a post office or if the post office is many miles away. It beats me how we can encourage that kind of e-commerce if we do not give people the facilities to carry on their business.
Government support has been removed in many areas. For example, as far as TV licences are concerned, a totally unnecessary switch has been made by a Government department that does not seem to know what another department is doing. Moreover, the Government is now talking about taking away the Post Office card account, which was only dragged out of it kicking and screaming in the midst of much clamour to keep post offices alive.
One of the biggest single factors in the closure of post offices is the lack of sub-postmasters who want to run these businesses. However, would anyone want to run a new business if they had no certainty about their career prospects; if they did not know whether the Government was committed to their network; or if the Government would not confirm whether it was threatening to take away the welcome subsidies that have been put into the network over the past few years? It is no wonder that sub-postmasters are not coming forward.
Even the regulator, the Postal Services Commission, which has only an advisory role with respect to Post Office Counters, said in its last report that the Government had to get a move on and make a decision about the network's future. That decision must be made, but when the Government makes it, it must also set out how its decision will help to sustain rural communities instead of being—as such decisions so often have been—another nail in their coffin.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Murray Tosh):
Con
The final item of business is a members' business debate on motion S2M-4876, in the name of John Swinney, on a threat to the rural post office network in Sco...
Motion debated,
That the Parliament notes the public concern over the future of the rural post office network in Perthshire, Angus and other parts of rural Scotland; notes t...
Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP):
SNP
I thank the many members who signed my motion and the Parliamentary Bureau for facilitating an important debate about the future of services in rural Scotlan...
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP):
SSCUP
Does the member agree that it is not only rural post offices that are at risk, but the whole network of post offices across the country, which is under inten...
Mr Swinney:
SNP
Mr Swinburne makes a fair point. I will say something about the business viability of post offices being jeopardised.Due to the limitations of transport in r...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
There is a very long list of members who wish to speak in the debate. I will discuss with the minister whether we might have a brief extension. However, ther...
Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD):
LD
I congratulate John Swinney on instigating this timely debate. At a presentation on 30 November, Tom Begg, the chairman of Postwatch Scotland, said that rura...
Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
Will the member give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
The member is almost at the end of her time.
Nora Radcliffe:
LD
The report continues:"If the country wants a comprehensive network of Post Offices to continue, a more explicit funding mechanism must be put in place, toget...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
Can you wind up please?
Nora Radcliffe:
LD
There are many things that could and should be done to maintain a unique network that is a valuable asset. If we do not use it, we will lose it and, if we lo...
Roseanna Cunningham (Perth) (SNP):
SNP
I congratulate my colleague John Swinney on securing tonight's debate. On 22 September in Birnam, he and I sat at a packed meeting with sub-postmasters from ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I congratulate John Swinney on securing a debate on what is an important matter for the whole of rural Scotland.I appreciate that support for sub-post office...
Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab):
Lab
I thank John Swinney for bringing this important debate to the Parliament this evening.Post office closures have a significant knock-on impact on local commu...
Mr Andrew Arbuckle (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD):
LD
I thank John Swinney for securing this debate. It is significant that a large number of MSPs from across the political divide are attending and want to speak...
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
I thank John Swinney for securing the debate.It is clear to me that we need to have joined-up thinking in our own back yard before we make a case for it to L...
Mr Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green):
Green
I thank John Swinney—the man who has had more members' business debates than the entire Scottish Green Party in the second session of the Parliament—for secu...
Richard Lochhead (Moray) (SNP):
SNP
My last members' business debate earlier in the year was on the subject of the future of Post Office card accounts and the future of our post office network,...
Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD):
LD
I offer John Swinney my warmest congratulations on securing the debate. I am sure that it will worry him that I agree with every word he said.If we were to c...
Mr Jamie McGrigor (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
I congratulate John Swinney on securing the debate and, like Jamie Stone, agree with every word that he said. As another MSP for the Highlands and Islands, I...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
Before I call the next speaker, I am minded to accept a motion without notice to extend the debate by 10 minutes.
Motion moved,
That, under Rule 8.14.3, the debate be extended until 6.04 pm.—Mr John Swinney.
Motion agreed to.
Alasdair Morgan (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I congratulate John Swinney on securing this debate, but the problem with debates on post offices is that we have to revisit the issue so often. If, as Jamie...
Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD):
LD
I, too, congratulate John Swinney on securing this debate.The pre-1997 UK Government had the unhappy record of overseeing the closure of 3,500 local post off...
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP):
SNP
Rural communities are at the heart of the debate. I have the privilege of representing one of the three parliamentary constituencies in Aberdeenshire, where ...
The Deputy Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Rhona Brankin):
Lab
I, too, am pleased that John Swinney has given us the opportunity to discuss further the important subject of rural postal services. I have rural postal serv...