Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129
Current MSPs
415
MSPs ever elected
13
Parties on record
2,354,908
Hansard contributions
1999–2026
Coverage span
Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Showing 60 of 2,354,908 contributions. Latest 30 days: 0. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 25 Mar 2026.
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
29 Mar 2007
The Future of Scotland
An election is coming up. It must be inspirational for any pensioner who is tuned in to today's debate to hear how much all the parties are going to do for senior citizens. The Tories talked about taking 50 per cent off council tax. The SNP will take a number of pensioners out...
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
28 Mar 2007
Airdrie-Bathgate Railway and Linked Improvements Bill
I think that everyone agrees that the bill is excellent, but the missing link that no one has mentioned is the 20 per cent of the population who will not be able to afford to use the facility. Will the minister look into free off-peak travel for pensioners and ensure that the ...
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
22 Mar 2007
Scotland in the United Kingdom
Will the minister give way?
John Swinburne: SSCUP Chamber
21 Mar 2007
Rights of Relatives to Damages (Mesothelioma) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
I think that it was not so much that the employers did not know, as that they did not care. That is the difference.
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
21 Mar 2007
Rights of Relatives to Damages (Mesothelioma) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
By the law of averages, I have no right to be standing here, because I worked in the shipyards. In 1947—60 years ago now—I worked in the city of Johannesburg as a young apprentice marine engineer. I worked in an area roughly the size of the chamber with scaffolding up either s...
John Swinburne: SSCUP Committee
20 Mar 2007
Age Strategy
I am happy at that.
John Swinburne: SSCUP Committee
20 Mar 2007
Age Strategy
Thank you, convener. My statement will be even shorter than I thought it would be.The strategy is strong on volunteering, because that involves people doing good work at no cost to the state. Because there are insufficient nursery and pre-school places, some parents have to le...
John Swinburne: SSCUP Committee
20 Mar 2007
Age Strategy
You talked about older people starting up in business. One of the main reasons for their doing so is the obvious fact that, in the five years prior to retirement, 40 per cent of men and women find themselves unemployed. The ones with a bit of initiative go and do something abo...
John Swinburne: SSCUP Committee
20 Mar 2007
Age Strategy
Can I also point out that the pensions are not carried on after the age of 75? Be warned: after the election, there will be older people than me in here. There are some very good older candidates.
John Swinburne: SSCUP Committee
20 Mar 2007
Age Strategy
But it is ageism. I am sorry, convener—we are talking about ageism, and that is an agist policy. I am asking the minister to take it up with the relevant minister.
John Swinburne: SSCUP Committee
20 Mar 2007
Age Strategy
I appreciate your sincerity on ageism and everything that you have said, which you did so lucidly. As an older person, can I give you a bit of advice? Could you get your own house in order? Parliament is agist—MSPs who are 75 or over do not enjoy the same pension facilities as...
John Swinburne: SSCUP Committee
20 Mar 2007
Age Strategy
The member asked a question.
John Swinburne: SSCUP Committee
20 Mar 2007
Age Strategy
My answer to that is—
John Swinburne: SSCUP Committee
20 Mar 2007
Age Strategy
The Scottish Pensioners Forum receives funding from the Government on the condition that the forum is not political. That is a one-sided approach if the Executive then seeks opinions on political action that it may carry out.
John Swinburne: SSCUP Committee
20 Mar 2007
Age Strategy
Does the minister think that it was remiss to have a consultation on elderly people without approaching the only elected member in the UK who represents older people, or his party, for a contribution? I add that the consultation was before Rhona Brankin's time as Minister for ...
John Swinburne: SSCUP Committee
20 Mar 2007
Disability Inquiry
It is not all gloom and doom, and the Executive is making its point in many areas. For the first time, I have been invited to a disabled hustings—something I had never heard of before. It seems as though a fair number of young people are involved. We are making an impact.
John Swinburne: SSCUP Committee
20 Mar 2007
Disability Inquiry
You have virtually answered my next question, which relates to recommendation 83. The committee seeks assurances from you that funding for the active schools programme will be reviewed to allow all young disabled people in Scotland—not just those who live in the council areas ...
John Swinburne: SSCUP Committee
20 Mar 2007
Disability Inquiry
My question relates to access to leisure. Recommendation 82 asks that the active schools programme be reviewed, with a view to making it sustainable and funded in the long term. The Scottish Executive's response does not mention whether such a review will be carried out. Can y...
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Committee
20 Mar 2007
Disability Inquiry
I have a young constituent who went right through to the final stages of training at the Scottish Police College before it was discovered that she was mildly dyslexic. Surely a mechanism should exist for all cadets who enter the police or for people who enter other branches of...
John Swinburne: SSCUP Chamber
07 Mar 2007
Football (Sectarianism)
Does the minister agree with me that the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act 1980, which banned alcohol from football grounds, was a gigantic step forward in controlling sectarianism?
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
07 Mar 2007
Football (Sectarianism)
I thank Alasdair Morrison for securing today's debate. People do not realise how much progress has been made. When I went to Ibrox and Parkhead just after the war, there were problems with sectarianism. I started working in the Glasgow shipyards in 1947. One day, this little r...
John Swinburne: SSCUP Chamber
07 Mar 2007
Alcohol Misuse
Does the minister agree that a total ban on advertising alcohol would be a gigantic step in the right direction?
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
07 Mar 2007
Alcohol Misuse
Will the member take an intervention?
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
07 Mar 2007
Christmas Day and New Year's Day Trading (Scotland) Bill:<br />Stage 3
Does Karen Whitefield agree that everyone who votes for ordinary working people going to work on new year's day should be prepared to come in here on the same day for a plenary session and a full day's work?
John Swinburne: SSCUP Chamber
15 Feb 2007
Education
It is more a point of information than a point of order. What would the procedure be if none of the Presiding Officers was able to fill the chair?
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
15 Feb 2007
Education
On a point of order, Presiding Officer.
John Swinburne: SSCUP Chamber
07 Feb 2007
Local Government Finance (Scotland) Order 2007
That is an interesting observation, but it is of little interest to the honest pensioners who do not contribute to the 7 per cent of uncollected council tax. By and large, my generation pays its dues and does not contribute to the uncollected tax. The council tax is supposedly...
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
07 Feb 2007
Local Government Finance (Scotland) Order 2007
Bristow Muldoon was the first person in the debate to mention pensioners. Yesterday, I spoke with a pensioner who was in full-time employment three years ago, when he paid 3 per cent of his income in council tax. Three years into retirement, he pays 22 per cent of his pension ...
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
07 Feb 2007
Local Government Finance (Scotland) Order 2007
Will the member give way?
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
07 Feb 2007
Tartan
Does the member agree that, unless protection is built into the Scottish Register of Tartans Bill such that the only tartan that matters is that produced in Scotland, tartan will go into cyberspace and then out to China and the sweatshops of the far east, where it will be prod...
John Swinburne: SSCUP Chamber
25 Jan 2007
First Minister's Question Time · Senior Citizens (Poverty)
My final question is on a positive note. Will the First Minister consider fast-tracking a bill to means test prisoners? Senior citizens are currently means tested and regularly lose their homes to pay for residential care. If prisoners were means tested and they were awarded £...
John Swinburne: SSCUP Chamber
25 Jan 2007
First Minister's Question Time · Senior Citizens (Poverty)
Does the First Minister agree that fuel poverty among the elderly is a national disgrace? Fuel bills have doubled over the past three years. Since June 2006, wholesale prices of gas have dropped by more than 60 per cent, but no reduction has been offered to the consumer. Fuel ...
3. John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
25 Jan 2007
First Minister's Question Time · Senior Citizens (Poverty)
To ask the First Minister what further action the Scottish Executive will take to address the essential needs of senior citizens who are currently living below Government-defined poverty levels despite previous initiatives which provided free bus travel, free central heating a...
John Swinburne: SSCUP Chamber
20 Dec 2006
Removing Barriers and Creating Opportunities
Will the minister acknowledge the grand work that is being done by the people in the gallery who are using sign language? Their conveying of what is being said to the people in the gallery is admirable.
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
20 Dec 2006
Removing Barriers and Creating Opportunities
I will concentrate on the problems that many disabled people face with regard to physical access. The main obstacle to be overcome is complacency among people who do not have daily to overcome access problems. Until such time as we or one of our family or friends are confronte...
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
13 Dec 2006
Local Government Finance Settlement
I apologise for my late arrival, which was due to a school visit to which I was committed.Will the minister recognise people's ability to pay and the situation in which the poorest pensioners, who have been means tested, find themselves? He has already done so in reducing wate...
John Swinburne: SSCUP Committee
12 Dec 2006
Participation (Widening Access)
Is there any legislation that we can enforce?
John Swinburne: SSCUP Committee
12 Dec 2006
Public Petitions Committee (Equalities Report)
Eight members' bills were passed in the first four years of the Parliament, but in this session only one has been successful. Do you think that the Public Petitions Committee could become a vehicle for members' bills?
John Swinburne: SSCUP Committee
12 Dec 2006
Public Petitions Committee (Equalities Report)
Do you agree that the fact that there are no MSPs from ethnic minority backgrounds is a failure not on the part of the Public Petitions Committee, but on the part of the Parliament? Do you also agree that, until we achieve that, there will always be an imbalance when it comes ...
John Swinburne: SSCUP Committee
12 Dec 2006
Public Petitions Committee (Equalities Report)
Have you given any thought to inviting comment from a wider range of equality-related organisations?
John Swinburne: SSCUP Committee
12 Dec 2006
Public Petitions Committee (Equalities Report)
I was privileged to represent a constituent at the Public Petitions Committee. The person was concerned about having to sell their parent's home to pay for care. I compliment the committee on its excellent service. How the meeting was laid out and the way in which we were ques...
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Committee
12 Dec 2006
Public Petitions Committee (Equalities Report)
Feedback from the Disability Rights Commission suggested that the Public Petitions Committee has been successful in attracting a high level of participation from disabled people. Have you analysed why that is the case? If so, what implications might there be for your work on t...
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
07 Dec 2006
SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE · Care Homes (Highlands)
What steps are being taken to accelerate the implementation of Professor Kerr's report relative to care in the community for elderly people in the Highlands?
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
06 Dec 2006
Rural Post Offices
Does the member agree that it is not only rural post offices that are at risk, but the whole network of post offices across the country, which is under intense pressure from the Government? Does he agree that we cannot afford to lose any post offices?
John Swinburne: SSCUP Chamber
06 Dec 2006
Council Tax
In an answer to a parliamentary question that I asked, I was told that qualifying pensioner households can get a 25 per cent reduction in their water services charges, if they know how to apply for it. That is a little step in the right direction.
John Swinburne: SSCUP Chamber
06 Dec 2006
Council Tax
Sorry.
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
06 Dec 2006
Council Tax
I have never heard, in any debating chamber, so many people try to defend the indefensible. Indeed, I find it incomprehensible that any intelligent person can argue for the retention of a totally regressive taxation system. In response to Tommy Sheridan, Charlie Gordon said th...
John Swinburne: SSCUP Chamber
30 Nov 2006
SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE · Swimming Pool Charges (Senior Citizens)
Does the minister agree that swimming, particularly by elderly people, should be encouraged by councils? Will the minister join me in deploring the 320 per cent increase in charges to senior citizens for access to swimming baths in North Lanarkshire? Charges have been increase...
1. John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
30 Nov 2006
SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE · Swimming Pool Charges (Senior Citizens)
To ask the Scottish Executive what action it will take to prevent local authorities from increasing swimming pool charges for senior citizens to an unaffordable level. (S2O-11242)
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
30 Nov 2006
SCOTTISH EXECUTIVE · Central Heating Programme
In the event that someone's heating breaks down and they are told that it will be many months before it can be repaired under the programme, will they be reimbursed if they pay to have it repaired themselves?
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
23 Nov 2006
Adult Support and Protection (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Is the main driver of the bill the medical profession, social workers, the legal profession or society in general? In the past 50 years or so there has been legislation—possibly flawed—that has dealt adequately with the problem in the majority of cases. In what way will the bi...
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
22 Nov 2006
Christmas Day and New Year's Day Trading (Scotland) Bill: <br />Stage 1
Back in 1947, when I first started work, I was amazed to find that Christmas day was not a public holiday. Strangely enough, new year's day was a public holiday. With hindsight, I realise that employers throughout the country at that time must have acknowledged that there was ...
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
16 Nov 2006
National Bed Assessment
I thank Jean Turner for bringing the matter to the Parliament today. I will read out an e-mail that I recently received, because it is relevant to the debate. It states:"Dear John, … I'm wondering how typical my 85 year old mother's experience has been of the non-provision of ...
John Swinburne: SSCUP Chamber
09 Nov 2006
Violence Against Women
Does the minister agree that it is surprising that the issue of alcohol has not been raised during today's debate as, often, the pathetic excuses for men who carry out these acts of violence are fuelled by alcohol and—in modern times—some other substances?
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
09 Nov 2006
Violence Against Women
Does the member agree that we insult men by accusing them of such abuse? The people who commit such crimes—they are crimes—against women are less than men and should be portrayed as such.
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
08 Nov 2006
Transition from School to Work
Will the minister give way?
John Swinburne: SSCUP Chamber
02 Nov 2006
First Minister's Question Time · Winter-related Deaths
Will the First Minister take advantage of a simple method of emulating Gordon Brown's excellent social experiment? The suggestion complies with the Scotland Act 1998. Will he exempt every pensioner household from paying the water charges element of council tax? On the basis of...
John Swinburne: SSCUP Chamber
02 Nov 2006
First Minister's Question Time · Winter-related Deaths
Will the First Minister join me in congratulating the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Gordon Brown, on the success of his excellent social experiment whereby, prior to last winter, when he was faced with the stark reality of more than 8,000 winter-related deaths among pensioners ...
3. John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP Chamber
02 Nov 2006
First Minister's Question Time · Winter-related Deaths
To ask the First Minister what steps the Scottish Executive will take this winter to reduce the number of cold-related deaths among senior citizens. (S2F-2510)
John Swinburne: SSCUP Chamber
02 Nov 2006
Financial Powers <br />(Scottish Parliament)
Well—whatever we want to call it. We could draw up a contract with the department: it could do what it liked on the military side of things and we could settle our share of the bill by demanding an exorbitant rent for the use of Faslane. That would balance things out.When West...
← Back to list
Chamber

Plenary, 06 Dec 2006

06 Dec 2006 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Council Tax
Swinburne, John SSCUP Central Scotland Watch on SPTV
I have never heard, in any debating chamber, so many people try to defend the indefensible. Indeed, I find it incomprehensible that any intelligent person can argue for the retention of a totally regressive taxation system.

In response to Tommy Sheridan, Charlie Gordon said that the Labour Party will restore the link between earnings and pensions. That will not happen until 2012, which will be exactly 15 years after Labour came to power—if it is still in power at that time—and a third of a century after Maggie Thatcher did away with the link. On Mr Sheridan's point about the erosion of the value of pensions, today's pension will be worth the equivalent of only £71 before anyone gets around to reassessing the situation and restoring the link.

I could make 1,001 points and talk for four hours on this subject, but I have only another three minutes. Where do I start? The Burt report recommends that

"a new Local Property Tax (LPT) should replace council tax."

That is simply the council tax by another name.

We should take a hard look at recommendation 10 in the report, which refers to

"the introduction of an optional deferment scheme for pensioner households who own their own homes".

That is already happening. As soon as anyone enters a care home, the first person at their bedside is a social worker to means test them. Means testing is the abomination that we all have to live with today. Good, decent people who have worked hard all their lives are being degraded by having to parade their poverty before civil servants and getting—if they are lucky—a pittance in return.

As far as "deferment" is concerned, social workers already tell people in care homes, "You don't have to sell your home to pay for your care—just sign this deferred agreement." The soul signs the paper and, when he or she dies, the vultures descend and take the house to pay for the care that he or she received over the previous X number of years. That is probably what the Burt report means by the

"optional deferment scheme for pensioner households who own their own homes".

What about those who pay rent? They simply do not come into the calculation and will receive no relief.

It cannot be right that, in 2006, a pensioner can receive a national pension of only 9p a week from this Government. Someone might have cared from the age of 16 for their mother for 20 years until she died and then cared for their father for another 24 years until he died. When they turn 60 and try to collect their pension, they find that they have no stamps. When they say, "But I've been a carer all that time," they are told, "If you had applied, we would have given them to you." When they ask whether they can apply retrospectively, they are told that they cannot. Moreover, they might be asked whether they have any money. If they say, "My father left me £25,000," they are simply told, "Come back when you're poor. In the meantime, you can have the minimum pension of 9p a week." We should all think shame of ourselves.

In any case, we must do something to stop means testing. I liked Mr Pringle's suggestions in that respect; indeed, I might even be tempted to vote Liberal with my first vote.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Murray Tosh): Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-5258, in the name of Annabel Goldie, on council tax.
Derek Brownlee (South of Scotland) (Con): Con
I hope that the Executive is as concerned for the plight of the council tax payer as it is for the Confederation of British Industry. Council tax in Scotland...
Alasdair Morgan (South of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
Will the member give way?
Derek Brownlee: Con
I would like to make progress.Today's debate could go one of two ways. It could either rapidly become an academic discussion on the various merits and proble...
Alasdair Morgan: SNP
Is Mr Brownlee as surprised as the rest of us that, for the second Opposition finance debate in a row, no Labour minister has turned up to defend the Executi...
Derek Brownlee: Con
I am no longer surprised by the actions of Labour ministers.There may be members who propose a local income tax to replace council tax and those who support ...
Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (Sol): Sol
Will the member give way on that point?
Derek Brownlee: Con
No. I want to make progress.Let us be honest: the Burt review was set up to provide cover for a division between the coalition parties. However, it is fair t...
Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP): SNP
He is no publisher.
Derek Brownlee: Con
Indeed he is not. He is even reluctant to grace us with his presence, but there we go.There was one occasion when Mr McCabe made it to Parliament and on whic...
The Deputy Minister for Finance, Public Service Reform and Parliamentary Business (George Lyon): LD
Local taxation issues have long been among the most difficult on which to reach consensus and the most controversial. Even the far-reaching and highly regard...
Tommy Sheridan: Sol
Will the minister take an intervention?
George Lyon: LD
I do not have much time and I would like to make progress.The Burt report presents challenges to all political parties, but it also provides a useful platfor...
Tommy Sheridan: Sol
The minister will be aware that the report cost the Scottish taxpayer more than £350,000. Was the First Minister speaking on behalf of the Executive or the L...
George Lyon: LD
The matter is very important and the Burt committee has done serious work on it. It behoves all the parties, if they are interested in the future of local go...
Christine Grahame: SNP
Will the minister give way?
George Lyon: LD
I am sorry—I must make progress. The debate is so short that I do not have much time to accept interventions.Take-up rates are still too low and we support t...
Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP): SNP
There are moments in this chamber when one imagines that one could be in a parallel universe because of some of the remarks that are made. In response to a p...
George Lyon: LD
I hear what Mr Swinney says. However, does he accept that we need, until the system is changed, to try to maximise the amount of benefit that pensioners rece...
Mr Swinney: SNP
Council tax has been in existence since 1994, but only 56 per cent of pensioners claim council tax benefit. At some stage, the Executive must conclude that t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Con
I call Bristow Muldoon to open for the Labour Party. You have four minutes.
Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab): Lab
The issue has been debated on many occasions in the past, and I have no doubt that it will be a major plank of next year's election campaign, with each party...
Derek Brownlee: Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Bristow Muldoon: Lab
I do not have time—I have only four minutes, I am afraid. The Tories' solution is a complete mirror image of the approach that Labour has been taking in gove...
Derek Brownlee: Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Bristow Muldoon: Lab
No. I have very little time.It is probably just as well that the issue that every single member in the chamber would agree on, including Annabel Goldie, is t...
Mr Swinney: SNP
Will the member give way?
Bristow Muldoon: Lab
I have very little time, although I would like to have a longer debate with Mr Swinney on this issue.A local income tax would also damage our ability to recr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: Con
We move to the open debate.
Mark Ballard (Lothians) (Green): Green
I am grateful to the Tories for initiating a debate on the council tax. The need for a local government finance system that offers an alternative to the coun...