Chamber
Plenary, 23 Nov 2006
23 Nov 2006 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Adult Support and Protection (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
We have taken appropriate advice on the procedures, to which I will be happy to return in the course of the afternoon to give Christine Grahame more detail of the way in which they will work.
In acknowledging issues that are raised around protection orders, such as those that were raised by Christine Grahame, I am happy to consider what might be needed to make it clearer in the bill how appeals procedures will function. We want to return to that area at stage 2.
The bill aims to balance rights and protection. To override an adult's refusal of consent, where a court is persuaded that it is withheld because there is undue pressure, will be an absolute last resort. We do not expect such circumstances to arise very often. However, where a responsible professional person is convinced that an adult is refusing support and protection due to undue pressure from another person, it is essential that he or she is enabled to present the evidence of that to a sheriff for their urgent consideration.
One of the most sensitive issues raised at stage 1 has been the definition of adults at risk. I agree that we should respond to the committee's concerns in that area by seeking to narrow the definition of adults at risk of harm in order to clarify the bill's intentions. There are people with profound and multiple impairments and others with cognitive impairment who are unable readily to articulate their views. They are among the people whom we seek to protect and support and we must not lose sight of their needs.
The other measures in the bill are to enhance the operation of the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Act 2000, the Mental Health (Care and Treatment) (Scotland) Act 2003 and the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968 by simplifying and streamlining them to deliver the original policy intentions. I believe that those measures, which have been broadly supported, will achieve those objectives.
We have considered carefully the views of the Health Committee. Ministers will seek to respond to those views in as positive a way as we can, consistent with the fundamental principles of the bill. On that basis, I hope that the bill can move to the next stage of consideration with broad-based support.
I move,
That the Parliament agrees to the general principles of the Adult Support and Protection (Scotland) Bill.
In acknowledging issues that are raised around protection orders, such as those that were raised by Christine Grahame, I am happy to consider what might be needed to make it clearer in the bill how appeals procedures will function. We want to return to that area at stage 2.
The bill aims to balance rights and protection. To override an adult's refusal of consent, where a court is persuaded that it is withheld because there is undue pressure, will be an absolute last resort. We do not expect such circumstances to arise very often. However, where a responsible professional person is convinced that an adult is refusing support and protection due to undue pressure from another person, it is essential that he or she is enabled to present the evidence of that to a sheriff for their urgent consideration.
One of the most sensitive issues raised at stage 1 has been the definition of adults at risk. I agree that we should respond to the committee's concerns in that area by seeking to narrow the definition of adults at risk of harm in order to clarify the bill's intentions. There are people with profound and multiple impairments and others with cognitive impairment who are unable readily to articulate their views. They are among the people whom we seek to protect and support and we must not lose sight of their needs.
The other measures in the bill are to enhance the operation of the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Act 2000, the Mental Health (Care and Treatment) (Scotland) Act 2003 and the Social Work (Scotland) Act 1968 by simplifying and streamlining them to deliver the original policy intentions. I believe that those measures, which have been broadly supported, will achieve those objectives.
We have considered carefully the views of the Health Committee. Ministers will seek to respond to those views in as positive a way as we can, consistent with the fundamental principles of the bill. On that basis, I hope that the bill can move to the next stage of consideration with broad-based support.
I move,
That the Parliament agrees to the general principles of the Adult Support and Protection (Scotland) Bill.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-5042, in the name of Andy Kerr, that the Parliament agrees to the general principles of the Adult Support...
The Deputy Minister for Health and Community Care (Lewis Macdonald):
Lab
We introduced the Adult Support and Protection (Scotland) Bill principally to provide support and protection for those people in our communities who are vuln...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Has the minister discussed the civil shrieval procedures that would have to take place? I see no mention of them. Will they be like interim interdicts? How w...
Lewis Macdonald:
Lab
We have taken appropriate advice on the procedures, to which I will be happy to return in the course of the afternoon to give Christine Grahame more detail o...
Shona Robison (Dundee East) (SNP):
SNP
The bill has had what I would describe as a difficult birth. Perhaps that is because, as I understand it, its origins lay with the Bichard proposals, from wh...
Mrs Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
This may be a somewhat repetitive debate.As we know, the general purpose of the bill is to provide an overall framework of support and protection for adults ...
Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD):
LD
I am particularly pleased to take part in the debate. Legislation in this important area is clearly necessary.The reforms in part 1 of the bill are, frankly,...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
It may be helpful if I indicate that at this stage in the debate I am not applying the normal time limits.
Euan Robson:
LD
Thank you. In that case, I will be slightly more expansive than I would otherwise have been.It is clear that statutory adult protection committees will be va...
Roseanna Cunningham (Perth) (SNP):
SNP
It is often said that the committee system is the heart and soul of what happens in the Scottish Parliament, combining as it does the functions of select and...
Janis Hughes (Glasgow Rutherglen) (Lab):
Lab
In my time on the Health Committee, we have scrutinised a raft of legislation on many subjects, and the bill is definitely up there with those that have enge...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
As some members might know, I come to the bill against the background of the Miss X case, in which a lady with learning difficulties suffered horrific abuse ...
Section 9, entitled “Examination of records etc”, says in subsection (1):
"A council officer may require any person holding health, financial or other records relating to an individual whom the officer knows or believes to be an ad...
Lewis Macdonald:
Lab
I seek clarification from Christine Grahame as to which places she thinks should not be included in the bill, because I think that the intention is evident.
Christine Grahame:
SNP
Such situations occur when people have capacity and against their will, but the bill would allow a council officer to go to their bank and look at their bank...
Euan Robson:
LD
The point is that if we put such committees on a statutory footing, there will be no doubt that they should exist. Although the Borders committee was born of...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
I cannot agree. The process is happening in many places in Scotland. The chief social work inspector could make plain through her guidance that that is what ...
Christine May (Central Fife) (Lab):
Lab
I think that I may be the only non-member of the Health Committee to participate in the debate so far.
Roseanna Cunningham:
SNP
No. Christine Grahame is not on the committee.
Christine May:
Lab
I beg Christine Grahame's pardon.It may come as a surprise to members, although I hope that it does not, to learn that we are all getting older. We hope that...
Dr Jean Turner (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Ind):
Ind
When I first started to read the bill, I realised that there was a need for people to be able to enter patients' homes to assess them but, as I read through ...
Christine May:
Lab
Does Dr Turner agree that some of the dreadful cases in the past have arisen because of reluctance to share such information?
Dr Turner:
Ind
Christine May is correct. People need training in how they should use and share information. I believe that people should share information. I also believe t...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
I am in no doubt why the people of Scotland need the Adult Support and Protection (Scotland) Bill. It is clear to me, having sat through the Health Committee...
Christine May:
Lab
Yes I am.
Helen Eadie:
Lab
I am so sorry—I meant Christine Grahame, not Christine May.The response to those questions by Adrian Ward of the Law Society of Scotland was compelling. He s...
Shona Robison:
SNP
In which cases would the member think it appropriate to override the views of an adult with capacity who did not want an intervention?
Helen Eadie:
Lab
I will return to that point later in my speech. The point was covered by a Mr Graham, a physician who gave evidence to the committee on the bill.Mr Ward cont...
Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green):
Green
During the previous session of Parliament, in 2002 to 2003, I tried to have hate crime legislation extended to all the groups that are identified under Europ...
Euan Robson:
LD
It should be clear to the minister from the debate that parts 2 to 4 of the bill will not cause him a great deal of difficulty. The interest will focus on pa...