Chamber
Plenary, 22 Nov 2006
22 Nov 2006 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Christmas Day and New Year's Day Trading (Scotland) Bill: <br />Stage 1
Let me try to address the bill before us.
The bill is designed to prohibit large shops from opening their doors to the public on Christmas day and new year's day. The issues around the two days are separate, and it is unfortunate that we are being presented with one bill that deals with both days together as if the issues were identical.
I will deal first with the question of Christmas day. I am sure that no member, and few people across Scotland, would want Christmas day to become another normal shopping day. We have got used to shops being shut on Christmas day and to it being a day for families and for most people to have a holiday and, if they wish, to engage in Christian worship. That is worth preserving.
It is worth mentioning that the celebration of Christmas as a holiday is a relatively recent development in Scotland. For some of my parents' generation and certainly for my grandparents' generation, Christmas day was a normal working day. It is only in the past 50 years that Christmas day has become established as the holiday that we now recognise. Indeed, the celebration of Christmas as we know it, with Christmas trees, holly branches, decorations and all the rest, is largely an importation to Scottish culture from south of the border and has happened over the past 50 years. It is as good an example of the anglicisation of Scottish culture as one can find.
Nobody passed a law to say that shops and other businesses should not open on Christmas day. Society changed, and as a result there was pressure on commerce to change too. We now have an established position in which Christmas day is a holiday for many people, and many Christians value the status that Christmas has as a religious holiday. That is not something that anyone would want to change.
Karen Whitefield's bill is weak in that regard, as there is precious little evidence of there being any demand from retailers to open on Christmas day. Paragraph 18 of the Justice 2 Committee stage 1 report on the bill quotes the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers, which admitted that there was no "hard evidence" to support the idea that larger stores wanted to open on Christmas day at the moment.
In any parliamentary democracy, it should be a basic rule that we pass legislation only when it is necessary to do so as a last resort and when all other non-legislative routes have been exhausted. In this case, it is hard to see where there is the demand for legislation affecting Christmas day. If the member in charge of the bill were able to make that case for protecting Christmas day, we would consider it sympathetically.
The position with new year's day is different. There is a clear demand, particularly from the tourism sector, for certain shops to open on new year's day. We have seen Edinburgh and Glasgow develop their tourism market over the Hogmanay and new year holiday period. As part of that, the city authorities, backed up by bodies such as the chambers of commerce, the Scottish Retail Consortium and the Scottish Tourism Forum, wish retailers to have the opportunity to open on new year's day, at least for part of the time.
I remember a few years ago there being no more depressing place in the land than Princes Street in Edinburgh on the afternoon of new year's day. It was full of bored tourists wandering up and down, looking forlornly in the windows of shops with "closed" signs on their doors. I cannot believe that that is good for our economy or our expanding tourism market. We therefore cannot support the proposal to compel large shops to close on new year's day.
The bill is designed to prohibit large shops from opening their doors to the public on Christmas day and new year's day. The issues around the two days are separate, and it is unfortunate that we are being presented with one bill that deals with both days together as if the issues were identical.
I will deal first with the question of Christmas day. I am sure that no member, and few people across Scotland, would want Christmas day to become another normal shopping day. We have got used to shops being shut on Christmas day and to it being a day for families and for most people to have a holiday and, if they wish, to engage in Christian worship. That is worth preserving.
It is worth mentioning that the celebration of Christmas as a holiday is a relatively recent development in Scotland. For some of my parents' generation and certainly for my grandparents' generation, Christmas day was a normal working day. It is only in the past 50 years that Christmas day has become established as the holiday that we now recognise. Indeed, the celebration of Christmas as we know it, with Christmas trees, holly branches, decorations and all the rest, is largely an importation to Scottish culture from south of the border and has happened over the past 50 years. It is as good an example of the anglicisation of Scottish culture as one can find.
Nobody passed a law to say that shops and other businesses should not open on Christmas day. Society changed, and as a result there was pressure on commerce to change too. We now have an established position in which Christmas day is a holiday for many people, and many Christians value the status that Christmas has as a religious holiday. That is not something that anyone would want to change.
Karen Whitefield's bill is weak in that regard, as there is precious little evidence of there being any demand from retailers to open on Christmas day. Paragraph 18 of the Justice 2 Committee stage 1 report on the bill quotes the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers, which admitted that there was no "hard evidence" to support the idea that larger stores wanted to open on Christmas day at the moment.
In any parliamentary democracy, it should be a basic rule that we pass legislation only when it is necessary to do so as a last resort and when all other non-legislative routes have been exhausted. In this case, it is hard to see where there is the demand for legislation affecting Christmas day. If the member in charge of the bill were able to make that case for protecting Christmas day, we would consider it sympathetically.
The position with new year's day is different. There is a clear demand, particularly from the tourism sector, for certain shops to open on new year's day. We have seen Edinburgh and Glasgow develop their tourism market over the Hogmanay and new year holiday period. As part of that, the city authorities, backed up by bodies such as the chambers of commerce, the Scottish Retail Consortium and the Scottish Tourism Forum, wish retailers to have the opportunity to open on new year's day, at least for part of the time.
I remember a few years ago there being no more depressing place in the land than Princes Street in Edinburgh on the afternoon of new year's day. It was full of bored tourists wandering up and down, looking forlornly in the windows of shops with "closed" signs on their doors. I cannot believe that that is good for our economy or our expanding tourism market. We therefore cannot support the proposal to compel large shops to close on new year's day.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Murray Tosh):
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-5169, in the name of Karen Whitefield, on the general principles of the Christmas Day and New Year's Day ...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Many of us have concerns about the inclusion in the bill of new year's day and the impact that that might have. We wo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
Under standing orders, decisions on the admissibility of amendments are the responsibility of the convener of the appropriate committee, once the bill has be...
Mr David Davidson (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I thank you for taking my point of order without notice. Further to the point that was made by the Liberal Democrat w...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
I am not sure that a point has been put to me on which I am required to rule. With due respect to the Executive and its role in proceedings, the interpretati...
Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab):
Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I am puzzled and seek further clarification of the position. Quite properly, you say that it is not for the Executive...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
I had believed that those matters were widely understood, but for the avoidance of doubt, the decision on admissibility at stage 2 is entirely the responsibi...
Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab):
Lab
I trust that the Presiding Officer's "Dear Santa" letter is in the post. Mine is already winging its way. I like to think that I have been pretty good this y...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
Does the member not see the inconsistency in her argument? If the tourism sector has grown over hogmanay, does it not mean more people have to work in hotels...
Karen Whitefield:
Lab
The bill covers retail trading in Scotland. Tourism has continued to grow despite shops not opening on new year's day in Scotland. It is not a disincentive t...
The Deputy Minister for Justice (Johann Lamont):
Lab
I congratulate Karen Whitefield on the work that she has put into examining how we can best protect vulnerable retail staff from having to work on Christmas ...
Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Ind):
Ind
The minister talked about department stores but, nowadays, many stores are in shopping malls and centres, such as the Gyle centre, Fort Kinnaird and Ocean Te...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
As I said, there is an unresolved debate about new year's day, and such issues can be explored further if the bill gets to stage 2.We want that process of ex...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
The point that Brian Monteith raised could be covered by a simple amendment that would provide that smaller shops that operate under the brand name of, or ar...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
I thank Margo MacDonald for that helpful intervention. I was trying to say to Mr Monteith that his question would not be sufficient reason to kill the bill a...
Jim Mather (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
The Scottish National Party intends to support the bill, which seeks to balance family values, our cultural values and modern terms and conditions. In partic...
Mr Monteith:
Ind
I hear what the member says about the SNP position. Has he consulted Sandra White?
Jim Mather:
SNP
Yes, I have consulted Sandra White.
Bill Butler:
Lab
Will Jim Mather give way?
Jim Mather:
SNP
I ask Bill Butler to let me build another point before I take another intervention.As with any move to improve the quality of life in Scotland, we are mindfu...
Bill Butler:
Lab
I am glad to see that the SNP seems to have performed a U-turn. Is it disowning the position expounded by its previous representative on the Justice 2 Commit...
Jim Mather:
SNP
This party does not dictate how members vote in committee, and it has reflected on the majority view in the committee.We want to broker an open and authorita...
Mr Monteith:
Ind
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Will you rule on the relevance of Mr Mather's speech to the subject under debate?
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
I call Mr Mather.
Jim Mather:
SNP
I am talking about impact and the fact that, in a jurisdiction that is identical to Scotland, the analysis is the same as ours and puts wind in the sails of ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
Let me try to address the bill before us. The bill is designed to prohibit large shops from opening their doors to the public on Christmas day and new year's...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
I find it hard to believe that anybody is ever bored in Edinburgh. The tourists could try Morningside, Bruntsfield, Stockbridge or any of the other villages ...
Murdo Fraser:
Con
I am sure that Ms MacDonald could offer personal tours of Edinburgh to bored tourists on new year's day. The simple fact is that many tourists gravitate to t...
Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab):
Lab
Will the member give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
Mr Fraser is finishing.