Chamber
Plenary, 22 Nov 2006
22 Nov 2006 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Christmas Day and New Year's Day Trading (Scotland) Bill: <br />Stage 1
The bill covers retail trading in Scotland. Tourism has continued to grow despite shops not opening on new year's day in Scotland. It is not a disincentive to people coming to Scotland. The argument that it is a disincentive is a bogus one.
The bill exempts small stores; 280m2 is a long-established standard in the retail industry and is recognised by employers and trade unions. Even the Scottish Retail Consortium acknowledged that without the exemption, there would be widespread breaking of the law. However, it said that the bill as currently drafted would be respected by retailers should it become law. I ask any member who questions the small-shop exemption to say whether they would prefer that provision not to be in the bill.
I want to dispel the myth that retailers bring staff into work when the front doors are shut and the shops are not open for business. That may have been true 20 years ago, when shops were open 9 to 5, with a half day on a Saturday and no Sunday trading, but in today's retail environment of 24-hour opening, shop preparation is done while the customers are in store. Members do not have to take my word for it: Debenhams told the Justice 2 Committee that on the only day on which it is not currently open—Christmas day—staff do not work in store. My bill will not prevent staff from working in a closed store, but retail employers do so.
Voltaire told us that "The best is the enemy of the good."
We should be mindful of that.
The bill will protect the majority of shop workers and a large number of non-retail workers. If shops open on Christmas day and new year's day, other workers who currently get those days off will be forced into work. My bill will not protect everyone—no legislation is perfect—but it will meet the policy objectives that I set out to achieve.
The bill is about preserving a special time that is a highlight of the calendar. It is a time that should be special to all those who wish it to be so and one that is both unique and universal. Without being too sentimental, it is a time that could even be said to be a little magic. If I was asked to decant that magic into a single sentence, I would borrow from Charles Dickens, who wrote:
"I have always thought of Christmas time, when it has come round … as a good time; a kind, forgiving, charitable time; the only time I know of, in the long calendar of the year, when men and women seem by one consent to open their shut-up hearts freely … as if they really were fellow passengers … and not another race of creatures bound on other journeys."
I urge all members and fellow passengers to support my bill and to show that we can make a positive difference to the lives of many shop workers and their families and to wider Scottish society.
I have great pleasure in moving,
That the Parliament agrees to the general principles of the Christmas Day and New Year's Day Trading (Scotland) Bill.
The bill exempts small stores; 280m2 is a long-established standard in the retail industry and is recognised by employers and trade unions. Even the Scottish Retail Consortium acknowledged that without the exemption, there would be widespread breaking of the law. However, it said that the bill as currently drafted would be respected by retailers should it become law. I ask any member who questions the small-shop exemption to say whether they would prefer that provision not to be in the bill.
I want to dispel the myth that retailers bring staff into work when the front doors are shut and the shops are not open for business. That may have been true 20 years ago, when shops were open 9 to 5, with a half day on a Saturday and no Sunday trading, but in today's retail environment of 24-hour opening, shop preparation is done while the customers are in store. Members do not have to take my word for it: Debenhams told the Justice 2 Committee that on the only day on which it is not currently open—Christmas day—staff do not work in store. My bill will not prevent staff from working in a closed store, but retail employers do so.
Voltaire told us that "The best is the enemy of the good."
We should be mindful of that.
The bill will protect the majority of shop workers and a large number of non-retail workers. If shops open on Christmas day and new year's day, other workers who currently get those days off will be forced into work. My bill will not protect everyone—no legislation is perfect—but it will meet the policy objectives that I set out to achieve.
The bill is about preserving a special time that is a highlight of the calendar. It is a time that should be special to all those who wish it to be so and one that is both unique and universal. Without being too sentimental, it is a time that could even be said to be a little magic. If I was asked to decant that magic into a single sentence, I would borrow from Charles Dickens, who wrote:
"I have always thought of Christmas time, when it has come round … as a good time; a kind, forgiving, charitable time; the only time I know of, in the long calendar of the year, when men and women seem by one consent to open their shut-up hearts freely … as if they really were fellow passengers … and not another race of creatures bound on other journeys."
I urge all members and fellow passengers to support my bill and to show that we can make a positive difference to the lives of many shop workers and their families and to wider Scottish society.
I have great pleasure in moving,
That the Parliament agrees to the general principles of the Christmas Day and New Year's Day Trading (Scotland) Bill.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Murray Tosh):
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-5169, in the name of Karen Whitefield, on the general principles of the Christmas Day and New Year's Day ...
Margaret Smith (Edinburgh West) (LD):
LD
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Many of us have concerns about the inclusion in the bill of new year's day and the impact that that might have. We wo...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
Under standing orders, decisions on the admissibility of amendments are the responsibility of the convener of the appropriate committee, once the bill has be...
Mr David Davidson (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I thank you for taking my point of order without notice. Further to the point that was made by the Liberal Democrat w...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
I am not sure that a point has been put to me on which I am required to rule. With due respect to the Executive and its role in proceedings, the interpretati...
Bill Butler (Glasgow Anniesland) (Lab):
Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I am puzzled and seek further clarification of the position. Quite properly, you say that it is not for the Executive...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
I had believed that those matters were widely understood, but for the avoidance of doubt, the decision on admissibility at stage 2 is entirely the responsibi...
Karen Whitefield (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab):
Lab
I trust that the Presiding Officer's "Dear Santa" letter is in the post. Mine is already winging its way. I like to think that I have been pretty good this y...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
Does the member not see the inconsistency in her argument? If the tourism sector has grown over hogmanay, does it not mean more people have to work in hotels...
Karen Whitefield:
Lab
The bill covers retail trading in Scotland. Tourism has continued to grow despite shops not opening on new year's day in Scotland. It is not a disincentive t...
The Deputy Minister for Justice (Johann Lamont):
Lab
I congratulate Karen Whitefield on the work that she has put into examining how we can best protect vulnerable retail staff from having to work on Christmas ...
Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Ind):
Ind
The minister talked about department stores but, nowadays, many stores are in shopping malls and centres, such as the Gyle centre, Fort Kinnaird and Ocean Te...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
As I said, there is an unresolved debate about new year's day, and such issues can be explored further if the bill gets to stage 2.We want that process of ex...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
The point that Brian Monteith raised could be covered by a simple amendment that would provide that smaller shops that operate under the brand name of, or ar...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
I thank Margo MacDonald for that helpful intervention. I was trying to say to Mr Monteith that his question would not be sufficient reason to kill the bill a...
Jim Mather (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
The Scottish National Party intends to support the bill, which seeks to balance family values, our cultural values and modern terms and conditions. In partic...
Mr Monteith:
Ind
I hear what the member says about the SNP position. Has he consulted Sandra White?
Jim Mather:
SNP
Yes, I have consulted Sandra White.
Bill Butler:
Lab
Will Jim Mather give way?
Jim Mather:
SNP
I ask Bill Butler to let me build another point before I take another intervention.As with any move to improve the quality of life in Scotland, we are mindfu...
Bill Butler:
Lab
I am glad to see that the SNP seems to have performed a U-turn. Is it disowning the position expounded by its previous representative on the Justice 2 Commit...
Jim Mather:
SNP
This party does not dictate how members vote in committee, and it has reflected on the majority view in the committee.We want to broker an open and authorita...
Mr Monteith:
Ind
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. Will you rule on the relevance of Mr Mather's speech to the subject under debate?
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
I call Mr Mather.
Jim Mather:
SNP
I am talking about impact and the fact that, in a jurisdiction that is identical to Scotland, the analysis is the same as ours and puts wind in the sails of ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
Let me try to address the bill before us. The bill is designed to prohibit large shops from opening their doors to the public on Christmas day and new year's...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
I find it hard to believe that anybody is ever bored in Edinburgh. The tourists could try Morningside, Bruntsfield, Stockbridge or any of the other villages ...
Murdo Fraser:
Con
I am sure that Ms MacDonald could offer personal tours of Edinburgh to bored tourists on new year's day. The simple fact is that many tourists gravitate to t...
Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab):
Lab
Will the member give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
Mr Fraser is finishing.