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Chamber

Plenary, 09 Nov 2006

09 Nov 2006 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Violence Against Women
I concur with everything the Executive has set out in its motion. I am pleased that the debate is being conducted under the heading "Violence Against Women" and not under the heading of domestic violence. Regardless of who the violence is against, it is a crime. For far too long, because it was perpetrated by men against women, domestic violence has been looked on as a form of second-class violence. I have always had the notion—the absolutely correct notion—that violence of any kind is a crime and should be treated as such. We must not look on violence against women as anything less than that.

I admire the commitment that the Deputy Minister for Communities and the Minister for Communities give to the issue and to the sincerity of that commitment. I share Carolyn Leckie's view of the minister. She did not say that he is her favourite minister, but mentioned his sincerity. Johann Lamont is also sincere in her commitment; I know that for a fact. Both ministers are passionate about the subject.

I applaud Carolyn Leckie and Cathie Craigie on their contributions; they were spot on. I have never understood why someone's past relationships or what they wear should be used to tarnish their reputation, particularly when the attacker is set free as a result. Rosemary Byrne referred to the tragic case of Lindsay Armstrong. Some weeks ago, I met Mrs Armstrong. Not all members may agree with the proposal, but consideration should be given to changing court procedures.

The debate has been excellent and every speech merits a response. I will attempt to pick up on all of them, but members will forgive me if I do not manage that. We have debated the subject of violence against women since 1999, at which time the debate was billed domestic abuse. Since 2003, the Parliament has held an annual debate on the issue. I welcome that. I also welcome the many projects that aim to stop this terrible crime that have been launched and the money that the Executive has made available.

As Christine Grahame said, violence against women has increased over the years. We have to ask why. Cathy Peattie and Nora Radcliffe, among others, touched on possible answers, including the fact that women are more aware of what is happening and where they can report the crime. Another possibility is the upsurge in lad mags, lap-dancing clubs and the accessibility of some forms of pornography. We need to look more deeply into why violence against women is not diminishing but increasing. The figures speak for themselves.

Many members, including Shiona Baird and Rosemary Byrne, talked about funding. I agree with their comments. The SNP amendment mentions funding for refuge places. Some women are lucky enough to have relatives they can stay with, as Bill Aitken said when he talked about refuge places in Glasgow, but many women do not. There should be refuge places for such women and funding is crucial if we are to help them.

I remind the minister that Ranald Lindsay, who is the convener of the Law Society of Scotland's access to justice committee, has talked about the emergence of legal aid deserts. As a result of a change in how civil legal aid is paid, many victims are unable to access lawyers to take on their case. He said:

"Our consciences are basically being exploited by the Executive on this. They know that it's difficult for us to turn away Mrs Jones who's been battered black and blue, saying that we're not being paid enough."

The minister should consider the problem of people's inability to secure representation, which happens not just in Glasgow, but in Edinburgh, Stirling and elsewhere.

Other members talked about the lack of long-term funding, which causes serious difficulties for people who are trying to do their best in organisations that cannot access funding that lasts longer than two years. I received a letter from the Glasgow presbytery, which is part of the interagency working group that is funded by the Executive and Glasgow City Council. The initiative provides a fantastic support network for women before, during and after court cases, but it has to submit a bid for funding every two years.

Many other groups are in a similar situation and do not know whether they will be funded in two years' time. That is unsettling. I have written to the minister to ask him to consider how such groups can secure long-term funding. In his speech, he said that money is available, but it does not seem to filter down to the many agencies that need it. Perhaps he can consider how they might access funding.

Cathy Peattie and Shiona Baird made valid points about the international situation. They referred to Afghanistan and other countries. It is imperative that we do not take an insular view of violence against women by talking only about domestic violence or violence that takes place in Scotland and Great Britain. The problem is international. Trafficking of women and abuse of children is taking place abroad, for example in Russia and its neighbouring states. We should consider how to alleviate the problem. If we cannot provide money, as Shiona Baird suggested, we can surely contribute by highlighting the problem. Operation pentameter tackled trafficking and was a great success. We need more such forward-looking action to prevent women from being trafficked to this country, as well as action to protect women from violence in their home countries.

Stewart Stevenson and other members, including Shiona Baird, made important points about violence that takes place behind closed doors, which has a seriously detrimental effect on children. As Rosemary Byrne said, we do not know what is going on in the lives of children who come to school. I have no doubt that exposure to violence at a young age sends a message to kids that it is okay to be violent. There are education programmes, but we must improve education for children so that we send a clear message that violence is not acceptable. If we emphasise that message to male schoolchildren, perhaps it will filter through.

As everyone else has said, this has been a good debate. I hope that we will not have to debate violence against women next year, because that will mean that it has been eradicated. However, like others, I think that it will be a long time before that happens. As far as I know, this is the only Parliament that has raised these issues year after year since 2003 to keep them on the agenda and which funds projects such as Scottish Women's Aid to deal with the problem specifically. I hope that the funding goes from strength to strength and is made more long term.

Every one of us here hopes to eradicate violence against women, which is a crime against humanity, not just against women. I look forward to the day when we do not have to debate it, because it has been eradicated. Thank you for the opportunity to speak in the debate, which has been excellent, because lots of good points have been raised.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid): NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-5109, in the name of Malcolm Chisholm, on violence against women.
The Minister for Communities (Malcolm Chisholm): Lab
This is the 16th year of the United Nations campaign of activism to end violence against women, and I am proud that the Parliament is again discussing male v...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
The minister mentions 600 updated spaces since 2000. I want to get my figures right. From the website of Scottish Women's Aid, I have a figure of 234 refuge ...
Malcolm Chisholm: Lab
I am giving the figure of 600 for new, adapted, refurbished or upgraded spaces since 2000. I do not know what the figure of 234 refers to.We are pleased to c...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
I note the terms of the Government's motion and I note the minister's words. We on this side of the chamber will be supporting the motion. The minister did n...
Carolyn Leckie (Central Scotland) (SSP): SSP
I welcome the debate and I will support the Executive motion—that is a rare occurrence. I congratulate the Minister for Communities and the Deputy Minister f...
Dave Petrie (Highlands and Islands) (Con): Con
We will be supporting the motion. The fact that many women in Scotland are still facing the horror of domestic abuse is an incredible statistic with Dickensi...
Nora Radcliffe (Gordon) (LD): LD
In 1999, the United Nations adopted November 25 as the international day for the elimination of violence against women. That violence includes domestic viole...
Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab): Lab
I welcome the motion, which comes in the run-up to the 16 days of activism against gender violence. The 16 days run from 25 November, which is the internatio...
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP): SSCUP
Does the member agree that we insult men by accusing them of such abuse? The people who commit such crimes—they are crimes—against women are less than men an...
Cathy Peattie: Lab
I want John Swinburne and other men in the Parliament to say that to the men concerned. The perpetrators are men—in general, it is men who commit such violen...
Shiona Baird (North East Scotland) (Green): Green
As the motion highlights, we have a great history of women's rights activism in Scotland. This week, I visited the Eighteen and Under centre in Dundee, which...
Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): Lab
I refer members to my entry in the register of members' interests. The motion is partly a tribute to the work done by local women's groups over the years to ...
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP): SNP
The experience of this man—I am grateful for the opportunity to participate in the debate—as an MSP is probably, alas, not dissimilar to that of others. I th...
Ms Rosemary Byrne (South of Scotland) (Sol): Sol
I, too, welcome the debate, and congratulate Scottish Women's Aid, and rape crisis centres and other voluntary sector projects on the excellent work that the...
Cathie Craigie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (Lab): Lab
"She dressed the wrong way." "She walked in the wrong place." "She said the wrong thing." "She was asking for it." Sadly, in certain sections of Scottish soc...
Carolyn Leckie: SSP
We have had a good discussion this afternoon rather than a debate. One of the best things about it has been that we have not had the ritual of Mike Rumbles t...
Nora Radcliffe: LD
This has been a passionate, articulate and well-informed debate. I want to continue by quoting from the inaugural professorial lecture that was given in 2001...
Cathy Peattie: Lab
Does the member think that it is more appropriate to use the phrase "domestic violence" than it is to use the word "abuse"? Although it is abuse, we must rec...
Nora Radcliffe: LD
I take Cathy Peattie's point, but I refer her to what other members have said about the mental undermining of people. Cathy Peattie's point is well made but ...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): Con
As Carolyn Leckie said, this has been a good debate and it has been largely consensual. Perhaps uncharacteristically, I will not seek to break that consensus...
Christine Grahame: SNP
I am hoping that Mr Aitken will get to the point of addressing our amendment, which I surmise from his comments the Conservatives will not support. I ask him...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman): Lab
You should be finishing, Mr Aitken.
Christine Grahame: SNP
I intervened as he looked as if he was running out of steam.
Bill Aitken: Con
Clearly, Glasgow has more than its fair share of this type of problem. I fully concede the point. However, from reports that I have received, I understand th...
Ms Sandra White (Glasgow) (SNP): SNP
I concur with everything the Executive has set out in its motion. I am pleased that the debate is being conducted under the heading "Violence Against Women" ...
The Deputy Minister for Communities (Johann Lamont): Lab
I welcome the opportunity to sum up this very important debate, which reminds us of one of the critical issues that we discuss and have to address.I will rep...
Christine Grahame: SNP
I thank the minister for that clarification. I was not sure how secure the figures were; they were the best that I could obtain. I am obliged to her for the ...
Johann Lamont: Lab
I can get back to Christine Grahame on the detail of how the statistics are managed. I agree that there is a challenge for all those who are working to suppo...
John Swinburne: SSCUP
Does the minister agree that it is surprising that the issue of alcohol has not been raised during today's debate as, often, the pathetic excuses for men who...