Chamber
Plenary, 02 Nov 2006
02 Nov 2006 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Financial Powers <br />(Scottish Parliament)
My view is that it is too early to convene another convention after just two sessions of the first Parliament that we have had in 300 years.
No one should be distracted from the fact that devolution means that we already have autonomy over our budget and economic strategy. I reject the viewpoint that, without fiscal autonomy, we are somehow unaccountable for what we spend. Ministers are accountable every week in this Parliament for the budget that they spend. We know that we need to get our budget right because not to do so would have serious implications for crucial areas of public spending. We already have the power to implement our own economic strategy for Scotland.
To reject the nationalists' plans, sketchy though they are, is not to ignore the issues, which is what the Tories claim while they try to obfuscate the fact that they disagree with their think-tank's report. The case that we make is that it would be ludicrous to change the constitution for the sake of change when the current system is working for Scotland. While other countries across Europe and throughout the world have slipped in and out of recession, we have enjoyed 20 quarters of consistent growth, record levels of employment and an employment rate that is above the UK rate. Scottish gross domestic product is on course for further growth. Why should we put such progress at risk? A protracted debate on fiscal autonomy might be of interest to some economists and political commentators, but what really matters for the people of Scotland is what this Parliament does to benefit them and their families.
Those economists who argue for fiscal autonomy because they hope that it will deliver a right-wing, low-tax, low-spend Scottish economy will be sadly let down by the SNP. Despite the best efforts of Jim Mather and Fergus Ewing, the SNP still promotes costly policies such as scrapping all graduate debt, which would cost many more millions than the SNP has budgeted for. Given such policies, the SNP cannot be trusted with devolution, let alone extra powers.
What matters to the people of Scotland is not the constitution but jobs, homes and investment in their communities and public services. Working in partnership with Westminster and as part of the strong UK economy that Gordon Brown has created, we have had record levels of jobs, record levels of investment in schools and hospitals and—a crucial issue for our economy—record spending on universities and colleges.
No one should be distracted from the fact that devolution means that we already have autonomy over our budget and economic strategy. I reject the viewpoint that, without fiscal autonomy, we are somehow unaccountable for what we spend. Ministers are accountable every week in this Parliament for the budget that they spend. We know that we need to get our budget right because not to do so would have serious implications for crucial areas of public spending. We already have the power to implement our own economic strategy for Scotland.
To reject the nationalists' plans, sketchy though they are, is not to ignore the issues, which is what the Tories claim while they try to obfuscate the fact that they disagree with their think-tank's report. The case that we make is that it would be ludicrous to change the constitution for the sake of change when the current system is working for Scotland. While other countries across Europe and throughout the world have slipped in and out of recession, we have enjoyed 20 quarters of consistent growth, record levels of employment and an employment rate that is above the UK rate. Scottish gross domestic product is on course for further growth. Why should we put such progress at risk? A protracted debate on fiscal autonomy might be of interest to some economists and political commentators, but what really matters for the people of Scotland is what this Parliament does to benefit them and their families.
Those economists who argue for fiscal autonomy because they hope that it will deliver a right-wing, low-tax, low-spend Scottish economy will be sadly let down by the SNP. Despite the best efforts of Jim Mather and Fergus Ewing, the SNP still promotes costly policies such as scrapping all graduate debt, which would cost many more millions than the SNP has budgeted for. Given such policies, the SNP cannot be trusted with devolution, let alone extra powers.
What matters to the people of Scotland is not the constitution but jobs, homes and investment in their communities and public services. Working in partnership with Westminster and as part of the strong UK economy that Gordon Brown has created, we have had record levels of jobs, record levels of investment in schools and hospitals and—a crucial issue for our economy—record spending on universities and colleges.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Murray Tosh):
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-5055, in the name of Jim Mather, on the financial powers of the Parliament. I advise members that we are ...
Jim Mather (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
I note the absence of any Executive presence for this debate. No minister is here. We saw the Executive trying to keep the Howat review under wraps, but I ha...
Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab):
Lab
Will the member give way?
Jim Mather:
SNP
I would like to make some progress first.More and more people are realising that it is difficult to compete and prosper when we have no economic powers. Howe...
Ms Wendy Alexander (Paisley North) (Lab):
Lab
The member indicated a desire to learn from other countries. I wonder whether he can name a single country that has adopted fiscal autonomy.
Jim Mather:
SNP
Navarre, the Basque Country, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands. Scotland, uniquely, has a system that damages its people; we need to learn from those o...
Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Ind) rose—
Ind
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD) rose—
LD
Jim Mather:
SNP
I will take an intervention from Jeremy Purvis.
Jeremy Purvis:
LD
The member mentions Lord Vallance. Does he know that Lord Vallance, as a member of the Steel commission, absolutely rejected fiscal autonomy and independence...
Jim Mather:
SNP
Mr Purvis may have read the motion or he may not. The motion calls for a debate. I respect Lord Vallance's views and I respect Jeremy Purvis's views; I want ...
Mr Monteith:
Ind
I suggest that Gerald Warner might take that view.I will be supporting this welcome motion, but will the member confirm that fiscal autonomy—even full fiscal...
Jim Mather:
SNP
It would be a step on the road, and I repeat to Mr Purvis that the motion is about having a debate, scrutinising all the options, considering the legitimate ...
Richard Baker (North East Scotland) (Lab):
Lab
While the Scottish National Party tries to ensure that the Parliament endlessly debates its powers, Labour is using them to grow our economy and to deliver p...
Brian Adam (Aberdeen North) (SNP):
SNP
Absolutely. We want independence. That is a perfectly honourable position to take. Why will the Labour Party not support a referendum and allow the people to...
Richard Baker:
Lab
The people have made that choice in every Scottish election. The choice will be put before the Scottish people again at next year's elections. We will willin...
Jeremy Purvis:
LD
Does Mr Baker recall that the Scottish Constitutional Convention recommended that a second constitutional convention should be convened after the first sessi...
Richard Baker:
Lab
My view is that it is too early to convene another convention after just two sessions of the first Parliament that we have had in 300 years.No one should be ...
Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP):
SNP
Will the member give way?
Richard Baker:
Lab
I would give way, but so little time has been allowed for the debate that I am unable to do so.That record has enabled us to have an effective policy of our ...
Derek Brownlee (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
This morning's debate is not a debate about the powers of this Parliament; it is a debate about having a debate about the powers of this Parliament. I would ...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
Derek Brownlee said that we should use the powers that we currently have. Can he confirm whether the Conservative party is in favour of using the existing ta...
Derek Brownlee:
Con
We may make our views clear in September 2007 so as not to prejudice the outcome of any current process. Laughter. After all, I am sure that Mr Rumbles, like...
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
There is no doubting that Jim Mather is a reasonable man. In this Parliament, in December 2003, he outlined the SNP's position of wanting a debate about fisc...
Ms Maureen Watt (North East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Does the present devolution settlement accord with the Liberal Democrat idea of fiscal federalism? If it does not, what other powers should the Parliament ha...
Jeremy Purvis:
LD
The answer is no. That is why, two years ago, the Liberal Democrats established the Steel commission. As Duncan Hamilton said in The Scotsman in March, its r...
Jim Mather:
SNP
Will the member give way?
Jeremy Purvis:
LD
I am afraid that I do not have time.The SNP has not presented costed policies on pensions or higher education, but only recently the shadow minister for soci...
Brian Adam (Aberdeen North) (SNP):
SNP
I am delighted that the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives have engaged in the debate and have made use of the fact that an open motion is before us tha...
Richard Baker:
Lab
What is wrong with sticking with the status quo when it delivers a strong Scotland that has consistent economic growth, provides jobs and has record investme...