Chamber
Plenary, 24 Nov 2005
24 Nov 2005 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
In addressing the 22 amendments in my name in the group, I am conscious of a comment that the minister made earlier. He said that legislation needs a good evidence base. I thoroughly agree with that, of course. However, the single seller survey pilot started in July 2004, with a target of carrying out 2,000 surveys; the figure of 2,000 was then reduced to 1,200 and, in the end, only 74 single seller surveys were carried out on which to base this legislation.
The decision to make the single seller survey compulsory came as a shock to the members of the Executive's steering group on the subject. The group was given no say in the final decision. The three policy drivers for the single seller survey were to improve information on property condition, to reduce wasted expenditure on multiple surveys and to address artificially low upset prices.
The Executive's evaluation of the pilot study, which was undertaken by Arneil Johnston, stated that it was impossible to say anything authoritatively about the experience of purchasers. Therefore, the argument behind the first policy driver is not proven. As for multiple surveys, members who have received the many letters from Edinburgh solicitors and estate agents in recent days will know that virtually all properties—especially in Edinburgh—are now bought subject to survey. There has also been a move towards fixed prices, which addresses the charge relating to low upset prices.
A conflict of interest also arises. If a survey is the seller's, the seller pays a surveyor who is acting on behalf of the seller. Solicitors cannot act for buyers and sellers, so how can we expect a surveyor to do so? If the potential purchaser wants information on the property, he will be forced to have his own survey carried out in order to discuss the property with a surveyor. That takes us back to multiple surveys.
I know of a property in Edinburgh that was one of the 74 that participated in the pilot scheme. By the time it finally sold, the survey was out of date and the purchasers had to have their own survey done. The inclusion of the single seller survey in the transaction has been described as the "kiss of death" by agents and the seller, who now wishes that he had never opted in. In future, buyers and sellers will unfortunately not have the choice of opting in or out, as the bill will make the single seller survey compulsory.
As I said, most properties are bought subject to survey and the successful bidder has the survey carried out, usually within 24 hours of hearing that his offer is acceptable. He is then of course free to discuss the report with the surveyor, who has no conflict of interest. If the purchaser refuses to accept the seller survey and opts instead to carry out his own survey, who will then pay for the seller survey?
The offer subject to survey and the recently introduced solicitor-led standard style of offer in Edinburgh contracts can bring the binding stage forward. Sometimes it can take place in the course of one day.
Issues also arise to do with the shelf-life of the single seller survey. It is incredible what one can learn as a member of the Communities Committee: I now know that dry rot spreads at a rate of 1m a month. The length of time for which the results of a survey remain acceptable is clearly an issue.
We also have to consider the cost of the single seller survey and the purchasers information pack. Every time the issue was raised in committee, it seemed that more and more was being added to the information pack. We have to wonder whether the figure of £100 for legal fees that is given in the financial memorandum is accurate. I doubt it. In the financial memorandum, it is estimated that the single seller survey will reduce purchase prices in the first year by £120 million. The predicted fall in subsequent years is not given.
I come back now to Arneil Johnston's evaluation of the pilot scheme. The report says:
"from the limited evaluation possible, it would appear that the existence of a Single Survey is not considered by sellers to improve the marketability of properties".
The report had nothing authoritative to say about the experiences of purchasers and it was inconclusive about the influence of the single seller survey on non-purchasers and about its impact on selling agents. So much for the good evidence base for legislation.
Arneil Johnston's report concluded:
"the majority of surveyors … strongly believe that the Single Survey will not have a positive impact on improving the condition and energy efficiency of private sector housing in Scotland".
The whole rationale behind the pilot exercise was that it would lead to improvements in the fabric and energy efficiency of homes in Scotland. Not only do we not have a decent evidence base, but the 74 surveys showed that single seller surveys will not even achieve what the Executive has set out to achieve.
The single seller survey will make it very expensive for people to put their properties on the market and it will cause considerable delays. Selling older properties will become even more difficult. The single seller survey will probably put an end to sellers testing the market before the final decision is made to sell.
The single seller survey pilot was a failure, but there was also a failure in consultation. In the eyes of buyers, sellers, surveyors and selling agents, the survey has been a failure. As I said at stage 2, if there was a handbook on how not to legislate, the single seller survey would be the leading chapter.
I move amendment 24.
The decision to make the single seller survey compulsory came as a shock to the members of the Executive's steering group on the subject. The group was given no say in the final decision. The three policy drivers for the single seller survey were to improve information on property condition, to reduce wasted expenditure on multiple surveys and to address artificially low upset prices.
The Executive's evaluation of the pilot study, which was undertaken by Arneil Johnston, stated that it was impossible to say anything authoritatively about the experience of purchasers. Therefore, the argument behind the first policy driver is not proven. As for multiple surveys, members who have received the many letters from Edinburgh solicitors and estate agents in recent days will know that virtually all properties—especially in Edinburgh—are now bought subject to survey. There has also been a move towards fixed prices, which addresses the charge relating to low upset prices.
A conflict of interest also arises. If a survey is the seller's, the seller pays a surveyor who is acting on behalf of the seller. Solicitors cannot act for buyers and sellers, so how can we expect a surveyor to do so? If the potential purchaser wants information on the property, he will be forced to have his own survey carried out in order to discuss the property with a surveyor. That takes us back to multiple surveys.
I know of a property in Edinburgh that was one of the 74 that participated in the pilot scheme. By the time it finally sold, the survey was out of date and the purchasers had to have their own survey done. The inclusion of the single seller survey in the transaction has been described as the "kiss of death" by agents and the seller, who now wishes that he had never opted in. In future, buyers and sellers will unfortunately not have the choice of opting in or out, as the bill will make the single seller survey compulsory.
As I said, most properties are bought subject to survey and the successful bidder has the survey carried out, usually within 24 hours of hearing that his offer is acceptable. He is then of course free to discuss the report with the surveyor, who has no conflict of interest. If the purchaser refuses to accept the seller survey and opts instead to carry out his own survey, who will then pay for the seller survey?
The offer subject to survey and the recently introduced solicitor-led standard style of offer in Edinburgh contracts can bring the binding stage forward. Sometimes it can take place in the course of one day.
Issues also arise to do with the shelf-life of the single seller survey. It is incredible what one can learn as a member of the Communities Committee: I now know that dry rot spreads at a rate of 1m a month. The length of time for which the results of a survey remain acceptable is clearly an issue.
We also have to consider the cost of the single seller survey and the purchasers information pack. Every time the issue was raised in committee, it seemed that more and more was being added to the information pack. We have to wonder whether the figure of £100 for legal fees that is given in the financial memorandum is accurate. I doubt it. In the financial memorandum, it is estimated that the single seller survey will reduce purchase prices in the first year by £120 million. The predicted fall in subsequent years is not given.
I come back now to Arneil Johnston's evaluation of the pilot scheme. The report says:
"from the limited evaluation possible, it would appear that the existence of a Single Survey is not considered by sellers to improve the marketability of properties".
The report had nothing authoritative to say about the experiences of purchasers and it was inconclusive about the influence of the single seller survey on non-purchasers and about its impact on selling agents. So much for the good evidence base for legislation.
Arneil Johnston's report concluded:
"the majority of surveyors … strongly believe that the Single Survey will not have a positive impact on improving the condition and energy efficiency of private sector housing in Scotland".
The whole rationale behind the pilot exercise was that it would lead to improvements in the fabric and energy efficiency of homes in Scotland. Not only do we not have a decent evidence base, but the 74 surveys showed that single seller surveys will not even achieve what the Executive has set out to achieve.
The single seller survey will make it very expensive for people to put their properties on the market and it will cause considerable delays. Selling older properties will become even more difficult. The single seller survey will probably put an end to sellers testing the market before the final decision is made to sell.
The single seller survey pilot was a failure, but there was also a failure in consultation. In the eyes of buyers, sellers, surveyors and selling agents, the survey has been a failure. As I said at stage 2, if there was a handbook on how not to legislate, the single seller survey would be the leading chapter.
I move amendment 24.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
NPA
We move to stage 3 proceedings on the Housing (Scotland) Bill.I will make the usual announcement about the procedures to be followed. We will deal with the a...
Section 10—Local housing strategies
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Group 1 is on local housing strategies. Amendment 70, in the name of the minister, is the only amendment in the group.
The Deputy Minister for Communities (Johann Lamont):
Lab
Amendment 70 responds to an amendment at stage 2 from Cathie Craigie, which intended to ensure that the use of assistance to improve housing conditions in th...
Amendment 70 agreed to.
Section 12—Tenancies to which repairing standard duty applies
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Group 2 is on tenancies that are wholly or partly exempt from provisions of the bill. Amendment 72, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 7...
The Minister for Communities (Malcolm Chisholm):
Lab
Section 12 is intended to exclude agricultural holdings from the repairing standard. An agricultural holding is primarily let for an agricultural purpose. If...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
I have found this part of the bill quite complex and, at stage 3, the issues are becoming even more complex.Amendments 73 to 76 address issues with the origi...
Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD):
LD
I thank the minister for lodging amendment 72, which covers the points that the committee was concerned about. It clarifies and extends the exemptions in an ...
Malcolm Chisholm:
Lab
There are two ways of looking at section 12. First, I will deal with the legalities and technicalities of the repairing standard duty. More fundamentally, I ...
Amendment 72 agreed to.
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Amendments 73 to 76 are therefore pre-empted.
Section 13—The repairing standard
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Group 3 is on fire safety. Amendment 5, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 6, 53, 69, and 7.
Johann Lamont:
Lab
Amendments 5, 6, 53, 69, and 7 will incorporate fire detection measures in the modernised repairing standard in chapter 4 of part 1 of the bill. The issue me...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
I am very content with amendments 5 and 6. I would like to press the minister on the words "building regulations". In my experience, the building control sys...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
I recognise the point that Donald Gorrie makes. He is right that many of the concerns about planning relate to the perceived inability to enforce standards. ...
Amendment 5 agreed to.
Amendment 6 moved—Johann Lamont—and agreed to.
Section 23—Referral to private rented housing committee
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Group 4 is on decisions by the president of the private rented housing panel. Amendment 80, in the name of Christine Grahame, is grouped with amendments 81 a...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
The amendments are all linked. I hope that the minister understands the spirit in which I lodged them. They aim to assist in the process of determining an ap...
Euan Robson:
LD
I recognise the spirit in which the amendments have been lodged, but perhaps they are too prescriptive and it would be relevant to cover the matter in guidan...
Malcolm Chisholm:
Lab
I appreciate why Christine Grahame wants to build the extra elements in question into the procedures of the private rented housing panel, but it is not neces...
Christine Grahame:
SNP
I am delighted by the minister's response, which will appear in the Official Report—that is what I really sought. In the circumstances, I seek to withdraw am...
Amendment 80, by agreement, withdrawn.
Amendments 81 and 82 not moved.
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Group 5 is on procedural matters relating to the determination on the repairing standard. Amendment 11, in the name of Malcolm Chisholm, is grouped with amen...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
The amendments respond to amendments that Tricia Marwick lodged at stage 2—obviously, we have good cop and good cop today. Those amendments dealt with notifi...