Chamber
Plenary, 26 May 2005
26 May 2005 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
National Health Service<br />(Age Discrimination)
It is sad indeed that we are discussing problems relating to the elderly, given the number of debates that we have held in the Parliament and the amount of legislation that we have passed in the past six years. I agree with Eleanor Scott that we are discussing two issues today. Age discrimination occurs when elderly people are bypassed for surgery or care in favour of younger people. In addition, we have been examining the alleged abuse and neglect of elderly people.
I support Nanette Milne's amendment to extend the Health Committee's investigation into community care legislation. As others have said, problems in the provision of community care by councils ultimately cause problems in hospitals. The bed blocking—or delayed discharge—figures are higher now than they were in 1999, although it is important to put on record the fact that the figures also include people with mental health problems and other disabilities.
The Kerr report appears to acknowledge and address the needs of elderly people. We have debated care of the elderly and passed legislation to set up the care commission, yet the problems that have been outlined today have not improved as expected or intended. The Parliament does not hold local authorities to account on implementing legislation. When did any of us last hear our local councillors take responsibility for bed blocking?
The Kerr report recommends that more care be provided in the local community, and I make no apology for saying, "Why not start with podiatry checks and, if appropriate, a care plan?" Healthy feet keep elderly people mobile and independent, improve their circulation and aid social inclusion. If we continue to cut back and neglect podiatry or chiropody care and treatment, more elderly people will continue to end up in hospital following a fall, spend months in hospital waiting for care in the community, and become more frail and dependent on care and support.
On the vulnerability of our elderly folk, only last week, a middle-aged professional person attended my surgery to make awful complaints about her mother's care in hospital, including about a lack of food and hygiene—we have heard such complaints today. She felt not just upset but guilty that she was letting down her mother after all that she had done for the family. Once I listed all the complaints, the constituent said, "Now you won't use my name, will you? My mother is scared she'll get picked on." After discussion, she asked me to do nothing, as she had already raised the issues in the ward and, if I wrote in, they would know who had complained. Once again, alleged abuse and neglect passed off without investigation and, sadly, are more likely to continue in future.
If we are serious about ensuring that elderly people get appropriate care and treatment in accordance with their needs, we must ensure that all care homes cater for residential and nursing care, in line with the intent of legislation; we must not have elderly people languishing in residential care when they need nursing care following the likely and predictable deterioration of their condition. Given that the remit of the care commission—which I commend; it is doing a good job—covers care homes for the elderly, should not it be tasked with ensuring that high-quality care is provided while people are waiting for care in the community?
I support the amendment in the name of Nanette Milne.
I support Nanette Milne's amendment to extend the Health Committee's investigation into community care legislation. As others have said, problems in the provision of community care by councils ultimately cause problems in hospitals. The bed blocking—or delayed discharge—figures are higher now than they were in 1999, although it is important to put on record the fact that the figures also include people with mental health problems and other disabilities.
The Kerr report appears to acknowledge and address the needs of elderly people. We have debated care of the elderly and passed legislation to set up the care commission, yet the problems that have been outlined today have not improved as expected or intended. The Parliament does not hold local authorities to account on implementing legislation. When did any of us last hear our local councillors take responsibility for bed blocking?
The Kerr report recommends that more care be provided in the local community, and I make no apology for saying, "Why not start with podiatry checks and, if appropriate, a care plan?" Healthy feet keep elderly people mobile and independent, improve their circulation and aid social inclusion. If we continue to cut back and neglect podiatry or chiropody care and treatment, more elderly people will continue to end up in hospital following a fall, spend months in hospital waiting for care in the community, and become more frail and dependent on care and support.
On the vulnerability of our elderly folk, only last week, a middle-aged professional person attended my surgery to make awful complaints about her mother's care in hospital, including about a lack of food and hygiene—we have heard such complaints today. She felt not just upset but guilty that she was letting down her mother after all that she had done for the family. Once I listed all the complaints, the constituent said, "Now you won't use my name, will you? My mother is scared she'll get picked on." After discussion, she asked me to do nothing, as she had already raised the issues in the ward and, if I wrote in, they would know who had complained. Once again, alleged abuse and neglect passed off without investigation and, sadly, are more likely to continue in future.
If we are serious about ensuring that elderly people get appropriate care and treatment in accordance with their needs, we must ensure that all care homes cater for residential and nursing care, in line with the intent of legislation; we must not have elderly people languishing in residential care when they need nursing care following the likely and predictable deterioration of their condition. Given that the remit of the care commission—which I commend; it is doing a good job—covers care homes for the elderly, should not it be tasked with ensuring that high-quality care is provided while people are waiting for care in the community?
I support the amendment in the name of Nanette Milne.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Murray Tosh):
Con
We move, rather behind the clock, to the next item of business, which is a debate on motion S2M-2861, in the name of Shona Robison, on age discrimination in ...
Shona Robison (Dundee East) (SNP):
SNP
I thank the many families throughout Scotland that have written to me about the experience of their elderly relatives. It is because of their concerns that t...
The Deputy Minister for Health and Community Care (Rhona Brankin):
Lab
I welcome today's debate on the standards of care for older people in the NHS. We have published standards that are both high and equitable and we all expect...
Shona Robison:
SNP
I accept, as I am sure the minister does, that there are lots of documents that say what should be done. However, does she agree that the problem is that wha...
Rhona Brankin:
Lab
Clearly, there is no point in having standards if we do not ensure that those standards are met. That is the challenge that we face. NHS QIS was established ...
Mrs Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
Today's debate comes at an appropriate time in the wake of yesterday's publication of the Kerr report, which indicates a way forward for the NHS for the next...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
Coming a day after the publication of Professor David Kerr's report, this debate is opportune. After all, Professor Kerr's very first proposal is for"All NHS...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
We now come to the open debate. Time is very tight indeed and I ask members to make speeches of strictly four minutes.
Mr Stewart Maxwell (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
It is a sad day when, despite the hard work of many decent and caring staff in the service, we have to debate the indignity and lack of care that some older ...
Carolyn Leckie (Central Scotland) (SSP):
SSP
It is absolutely right that we should have a debate about age discrimination in the NHS. It is well known that the NHS is plagued with inequalities and has b...
Richard Baker (North East Scotland) (Lab):
Lab
The provision of a high standard of health care is important to everyone in Scotland but particularly to our older people. The starting point for this debate...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Richard Baker:
Lab
I am sorry, but I have only four minutes.Older people are the most frequent users of NHS services. Day in and day out, hundreds of thousands of older people ...
John Swinburne (Central Scotland) (SSCUP):
SSCUP
I welcome the debate on Shona Robison's motion. Sadly, it reflects the lack of basic respect for the elderly that exists in our society and which manifests i...
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP):
SNP
When we see discrimination against older citizens in the NHS, we often see a reflection of broader, societal discrimination against older people. I make no p...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab):
Lab
In 25 years' time, there will be more people of retirement age in Scotland than there will be children. The biggest growth will be in the number of people wh...
Eleanor Scott (Highlands and Islands) (Green):
Green
Two separate and yet connected issues have been referred to in the debate: age discrimination and neglect of the elderly. As various members have pointed out...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
We move to winding-up speeches. I call Donald Gorrie and advise him that he has a tight four minutes.
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
I apologise for missing the first part of the debate. The pressure on members in trying to get agreement on amendments to legislation is unrelenting. There a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
You must finish now, Mr Gorrie.
Donald Gorrie:
LD
That would help to reduce the problem and change people's attitude. They would see how much older people can contribute.
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
It is sad indeed that we are discussing problems relating to the elderly, given the number of debates that we have held in the Parliament and the amount of l...
Rhona Brankin:
Lab
We have all listened carefully to the debate. The issue is emotive and hugely important and, as I said in my opening speech, there is absolutely no room for ...
Mary Scanlon:
Con
Will the minister give way?
Rhona Brankin:
Lab
I am sorry, but I do not have time.Let me respond to some specific points that were raised in the debate. Shona Robison referred to "Frontline Scotland" and ...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
First, I make it clear that Ms Robison has given her excuses to the Presiding Officer for not being here for the conclusion of the debate.I preface my main r...
Stewart Stevenson:
SNP
Surely not.
Christine Grahame:
SNP
They are as quirky as Andy Kerr and they are as different as Stewart Stevenson. By the way, he has now delivered his 200th speech. I do not know whether to w...