Chamber
Plenary, 12 May 2005
12 May 2005 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Schools-Colleges Review
Yes, I do. I was privileged to have a lengthy discussion with the consultants who prepared the report for Careers Scotland on the benefit to young people of having a structured choice programme. I hope that Careers Scotland and Futureskills Scotland will, at the Executive's behest, continue to identify improvements that can be made.
The issue is the links between schools and colleges throughout the country, some of which are good and some of which are not so good, as Robert Brown said. As the minister said, from the start colleges have been firmly involved in the strategy that has been produced today. It might contain no surprises, but that is a good thing, because many of us have been involved with our local colleges in what is being done. A one-size-fits-all approach will not be taken. The approaches that are taken will be appropriate to rural areas and urban areas, and perhaps will be more advanced in some places than in others.
The adult ethos of colleges should not be compromised. We must be careful that we do not seek to turn colleges into schools or schools into colleges, because they are different institutions with different purposes. One interesting statistic is that the average age of students in Scotland's further education colleges is 28, which in itself presents problems for school pupils. The minister and his officials have had considerable discussions with colleges, school boards and parent groups about how that might be managed.
The strategy supports the curriculum development work and review work that have been going on in schools, such as the skills-for-work programme, to which the minister referred, the enterprise education programmes and various other measures. I welcome the additional funding announced by the minister, which will provide a firm financial basis. For too long, programmes have been funded by cobbling together whatever money might be spared, largely from colleges but some from the Education Department. I ask the minister how the funding will be continued and built into budgets.
Around 1,000 school pupils attended Glenrothes College in my constituency as part of their school work last year, and they all had meaningful experiences. However, as I said, they did not necessarily follow up what they did there.
We must define what we mean by vocational skills. The term applies not just to craft subjects; it can apply to skills that enhance people's ability to work. Vocational skills have long been part of the development of professional qualifications.
I congratulate the Executive and support it. I hope that at the end of today's debate we will be able to find a consensus for the benefit of all our young people and colleges.
The issue is the links between schools and colleges throughout the country, some of which are good and some of which are not so good, as Robert Brown said. As the minister said, from the start colleges have been firmly involved in the strategy that has been produced today. It might contain no surprises, but that is a good thing, because many of us have been involved with our local colleges in what is being done. A one-size-fits-all approach will not be taken. The approaches that are taken will be appropriate to rural areas and urban areas, and perhaps will be more advanced in some places than in others.
The adult ethos of colleges should not be compromised. We must be careful that we do not seek to turn colleges into schools or schools into colleges, because they are different institutions with different purposes. One interesting statistic is that the average age of students in Scotland's further education colleges is 28, which in itself presents problems for school pupils. The minister and his officials have had considerable discussions with colleges, school boards and parent groups about how that might be managed.
The strategy supports the curriculum development work and review work that have been going on in schools, such as the skills-for-work programme, to which the minister referred, the enterprise education programmes and various other measures. I welcome the additional funding announced by the minister, which will provide a firm financial basis. For too long, programmes have been funded by cobbling together whatever money might be spared, largely from colleges but some from the Education Department. I ask the minister how the funding will be continued and built into budgets.
Around 1,000 school pupils attended Glenrothes College in my constituency as part of their school work last year, and they all had meaningful experiences. However, as I said, they did not necessarily follow up what they did there.
We must define what we mean by vocational skills. The term applies not just to craft subjects; it can apply to skills that enhance people's ability to work. Vocational skills have long been part of the development of professional qualifications.
I congratulate the Executive and support it. I hope that at the end of today's debate we will be able to find a consensus for the benefit of all our young people and colleges.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
NPA
Good morning. The first item of business is a debate on motion S2M-2793, in the name of Peter Peacock, on the schools-colleges review.
Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. The document to inform the debate has not yet been delivered to members. I understand that there is a hold-up at the ...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
The supply of documentation is not a matter for me; it is a matter for the Executive. However, what has happened is unfortunate.
The Minister for Education and Young People (Peter Peacock):
Lab
Shall I begin my speech, Presiding Officer, or do you want me to deal with the point of order separately?
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I think that you should deal with the point that has been raised, as it is clearly germane to the debate.
Peter Peacock:
Lab
I fully acknowledge the point that has been raised. The documents were due to be in the Scottish Parliament information centre by 9 o'clock for members gener...
Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
Further to that point of order, Presiding Officer. Mr Peacock and Mr Wallace are due to launch the document this morning at Telford College. It is questionab...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
The Parliament has agreed that the debate should proceed and that is what should happen. The Minister for Parliamentary Business made efforts to get the docu...
The Minister for Education and Young People (Peter Peacock):
Lab
It is my pleasure to open this debate on school-college partnership. We know that many pupils already benefit from the learning opportunities that colleges b...
Elaine Smith (Coatbridge and Chryston) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome much of what the minister has said. He has spoken of the role of other institutions. Are there any plans to examine the links between schools and h...
Peter Peacock:
Lab
The specific focus of this work is school-college links, but other work is on-going between higher education institutions and schools and we want to encourag...
Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab):
Lab
I am sure that the minister will agree that the role of careers services is vital to the whole process that he is describing. How will that role be promoted ...
Peter Peacock:
Lab
Sylvia Jackson raises an important point. I am not going to refer to the matter specifically today, but I know that people want to develop more appropriate r...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
I am interested in what the minister is saying, but, if there is to be an impact on the world of work as well as on pupils, will he indicate the quantity of ...
Peter Peacock:
Lab
I will say something about that later. We will be piloting a lot of the work so that it can be fully tested before it is rolled out across the system. As I w...
Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
Before I come to the substance of my speech, I must reflect on the circumstances of the debate. It is not acceptable for members of the Parliament not to hav...
Peter Peacock:
Lab
There may have been some misunderstanding. I am deeply flattered that Fiona Hyslop wants me to remain in the chamber all morning, but that is what I intend t...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
I am pleased to hear of the minister's change to his previously advertised plan.A great deal of consensus exists in the Parliament on the subject of today's ...
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con):
Con
I am grateful to have the opportunity to open the debate on behalf of the Conservatives. The Scottish Executive's initiative to develop effective partnership...
Robert Brown (Glasgow) (LD):
LD
I give a warm welcome to the publication of the documents on school-college partnerships. The Executive has implemented yet another key Liberal Democrat mani...
Christine May (Central Fife) (Lab):
Lab
As we seem to be continuing the election campaign that I thought had finished last week, I play my part by saying that other parties might have had the propo...
Robert Brown:
LD
Is Christine May aware of the Careers Scotland research that identified the close link between people having a goal in life and attainment? Does she think th...
Christine May:
Lab
Yes, I do. I was privileged to have a lengthy discussion with the consultants who prepared the report for Careers Scotland on the benefit to young people of ...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Tricia Marwick has withdrawn.
Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP):
SNP
We all share the objectives that are set out in today's documents. We all agree that in principle we support the expansion of the role of further education c...
Christine May:
Lab
Perhaps Mr Ewing will explain to me how additional funding for activities that are carried out at present but not funded will, as he suggests, cause problems...
Fergus Ewing:
SNP
We do not know what the impact will be because the documents do not say that. We know that the sum will be £41 million but, as Fiona Hyslop said, we have no ...
Chris Ballance (South of Scotland) (Green):
Green
The Executive review, "Building the Foundations of a Lifelong Learning Society", is a most welcome document. Set beside the merger of the tertiary education ...
Dr Jackson:
Lab
I want to know whether I understand correctly what the member said a few sentences back. He seemed to say that he envisaged S4 pupils going fully into furthe...
Chris Ballance:
Green
The important point is that there is provision for pupils in S4 who want to have alternatives to school education, as well as school education. They should b...