Chamber
Plenary, 17 Mar 2005
17 Mar 2005 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Protection of Children and Prevention of Sexual Offences (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
There is no doubt that any offence that involves harm being done to a child is despicable, but it is hard to imagine anything more despicable than sexual offences that are committed against children. Such offences are particularly horrific and, as well as resulting in physical harm, they can inflict emotional damage that lasts a lifetime. Every time that parents or carers who are trying to help young victims to rebuild their lives after sexual abuse find out through the media that another offence has been reported, they experience renewed horror. Sadly, in those tragic situations in which children have been murdered by sex offenders, families often feel that they are the ones who are serving the life sentence, in that they are reminded of their loss every day.
I have met many children and young people who have survived abuse, as well as parents whose children have been abused or abused and murdered. I pay tribute to all of them for their courage, because that courage has helped us to learn lessons about the need to introduce legislation. In inviting the Parliament to agree to the general principles of the Protection of Children and Prevention of Sexual Offences (Scotland) Bill, I want every member to remember the experiences of those parents, to resolve to do everything that they can to ensure that we make it harder for the people who seek to abuse our children and to continue to put the protection of innocent children first.
I will say a few words about the bill's content. Section 1 deals with grooming. Members will be aware that an act of grooming occurs when an adult befriends a child and uses various methods to gain their trust so that they can persuade the child to get involved in a situation in which he or she can be sexually assaulted. Sometimes that grooming is done face to face—the adult might make friends with the child and spend time with them to win their confidence—but, increasingly, sex offenders make use of internet chat rooms to groom their victims so that they can carry out their despicable acts. We must protect our children from that threat, regardless of how it is intended that the offence will be committed.
It is important to record the fact that Scots law is already capable of dealing with many instances of so-called grooming behaviour. However, as we know that sex offenders are extremely adept at avoiding detection and skilled in creating situations and manipulating them to their advantage, we need to ensure that there are no gaps in the law that can be exploited by predatory sex offenders. Our proposed provisions mean that anyone who uses grooming techniques to take certain steps towards sexually assaulting a child will be committing a serious offence that carries a penalty of up to 10 years' imprisonment. Someone will be guilty of that offence before they have caused any physical harm and possibly even before they have met their intended victim. That is the new offence.
The bill goes even further than that in an effort to protect our children. Child protection professionals know of cases in which it is reasonable to suspect that someone is a risk, in that their behaviour is likely to lead to their sexually harming children or a particular child. I well recall that from my time in social work. Such people may not be committing an offence, but they may well be acting in a sexually inappropriate way—a way that suggests that the commission of a sexual offence might be just round the corner. For example, if there was evidence that an adult was encouraging a child to watch pornographic videos, although—depending on the circumstances—that might not amount to a criminal offence, it would undoubtedly give rise to genuine concern about that adult's motives and potential future behaviour. The fact that such a person is not committing a sexual offence cannot mean that we should simply wait until such an offence is committed before we intervene.
In such cases, once a chief constable has made an application, the courts will be able to impose a risk of sexual harm order, which will place restrictions on the adult concerned in order to protect a particular child—or children in general—from being sexually harmed by that adult. The restrictions could be used to prevent the adult from having contact with a particular child or from hanging around outside schools or sports centres. The court will be able to place any restriction on the adult that it considers to be necessary to protect the child or children from sexual harm. Again, we are taking action to use the law in a proactive way to prevent real and lasting damage from being done to our children.
I have met many children and young people who have survived abuse, as well as parents whose children have been abused or abused and murdered. I pay tribute to all of them for their courage, because that courage has helped us to learn lessons about the need to introduce legislation. In inviting the Parliament to agree to the general principles of the Protection of Children and Prevention of Sexual Offences (Scotland) Bill, I want every member to remember the experiences of those parents, to resolve to do everything that they can to ensure that we make it harder for the people who seek to abuse our children and to continue to put the protection of innocent children first.
I will say a few words about the bill's content. Section 1 deals with grooming. Members will be aware that an act of grooming occurs when an adult befriends a child and uses various methods to gain their trust so that they can persuade the child to get involved in a situation in which he or she can be sexually assaulted. Sometimes that grooming is done face to face—the adult might make friends with the child and spend time with them to win their confidence—but, increasingly, sex offenders make use of internet chat rooms to groom their victims so that they can carry out their despicable acts. We must protect our children from that threat, regardless of how it is intended that the offence will be committed.
It is important to record the fact that Scots law is already capable of dealing with many instances of so-called grooming behaviour. However, as we know that sex offenders are extremely adept at avoiding detection and skilled in creating situations and manipulating them to their advantage, we need to ensure that there are no gaps in the law that can be exploited by predatory sex offenders. Our proposed provisions mean that anyone who uses grooming techniques to take certain steps towards sexually assaulting a child will be committing a serious offence that carries a penalty of up to 10 years' imprisonment. Someone will be guilty of that offence before they have caused any physical harm and possibly even before they have met their intended victim. That is the new offence.
The bill goes even further than that in an effort to protect our children. Child protection professionals know of cases in which it is reasonable to suspect that someone is a risk, in that their behaviour is likely to lead to their sexually harming children or a particular child. I well recall that from my time in social work. Such people may not be committing an offence, but they may well be acting in a sexually inappropriate way—a way that suggests that the commission of a sexual offence might be just round the corner. For example, if there was evidence that an adult was encouraging a child to watch pornographic videos, although—depending on the circumstances—that might not amount to a criminal offence, it would undoubtedly give rise to genuine concern about that adult's motives and potential future behaviour. The fact that such a person is not committing a sexual offence cannot mean that we should simply wait until such an offence is committed before we intervene.
In such cases, once a chief constable has made an application, the courts will be able to impose a risk of sexual harm order, which will place restrictions on the adult concerned in order to protect a particular child—or children in general—from being sexually harmed by that adult. The restrictions could be used to prevent the adult from having contact with a particular child or from hanging around outside schools or sports centres. The court will be able to place any restriction on the adult that it considers to be necessary to protect the child or children from sexual harm. Again, we are taking action to use the law in a proactive way to prevent real and lasting damage from being done to our children.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Murray Tosh):
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-2353, in the name of Cathy Jamieson, on the Protection of Children and Prevention of Sexual Offences (Sco...
The Minister for Justice (Cathy Jamieson):
Lab
There is no doubt that any offence that involves harm being done to a child is despicable, but it is hard to imagine anything more despicable than sexual off...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Evidence from the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents, or possibly it was from the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland, raised the co...
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
A number of issues are involved, including the definitions of a child and an adult. We will come to those issues during the debate and when we examine the bi...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con):
Con
Will the minister give way?
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
I am sorry, but I must move on.The order will require the offender to stay away from the people or places that are associated with previous offending or, for...
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP):
SNP
The Scottish National Party will support the general principles of the bill at decision time. A reading of the introduction to the bill leads me to say that ...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con):
Con
A number of times when a bill has been introduced, I have questioned its value or opposed it outright on the grounds that it is unnecessary or counterproduct...
Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD):
LD
As I joined the Justice 1 Committee only recently, my comments will be largely from my viewpoint.It is, first and foremost, in the interests of society to ca...
Mrs Mary Mulligan (Linlithgow) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the Protection of Children and Prevention of Sexual Offences (Scotland) Bill. Unfortunately, there are people who are using the opportunities that ...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
This is tricky legislation to get right. The definition in section 1 uses the phrase "having met or communicated", but it seems to me that the debate is circ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
I call Pauline McNeill, who will be followed by Jeremy Purvis. I apologise. I call Annabel Goldie, who will be followed by Pauline McNeill.
Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con):
Con
Pauline McNeill's fright was nothing compared to mine.It has been said that the Conservative party welcomes the general principles of the bill. In an increas...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):
Lab
I begin by thanking the Justice 1 Committee, the clerks, the bill team and the Deputy Minister for Justice for the work that they have all done in putting to...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
You have one minute.
Pauline McNeill:
Lab
The age question was a very difficult issue for the committee. As it stands, the bill will apply to persons aged 18 and over. The committee recommended that ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
You must wind up now, Ms McNeill.
Pauline McNeill:
Lab
As Mary Mulligan said, it is not helpful to compare an RSHO with an ASBO, given the massive stigma that will be attached to the former. We must get right the...
Jeremy Purvis (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
As my colleague Jamie Stone said, the Liberal Democrats will support the general principles of the bill. In my view, the sober nature of this afternoon's deb...
Mr Stewart Maxwell (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome the bill. The legislation is overdue and the SNP will certainly support the bill's general principles this evening. Although other members have cov...
Helen Eadie (Dunfermline East) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the debate on the general principles of the Protection of Children and Prevention of Sexual Offences (Scotland) Bill. Like members who have spoken ...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green):
Green
All of us in the chamber recognise the importance of getting child protection right. The minister used the word "despicable" earlier in the debate to describ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
We move to winding-up speeches and I call Jamie Stone. Mr Stone, you have a tight four minutes.
Mr Stone:
LD
I rise to speak for the second time this afternoon. The minister rightly pointed to the emotional damage that is done to children and, correctly, flagged up ...
Members:
Cheese!
Mr Stone:
LD
I remember, as a wee boy, sitting in our knackered—is that parliamentary language? Perhaps not. I remember sitting in our battered old van when, suddenly and...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
The debate is predicated—as, indeed, is the legislation—on the basic concept that the abuse and exploitation of children for sexual purposes are abhorrent to...
Mr Bruce McFee (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
The debate has shown that, although the bill is relatively short, it impacts on a wide and complex range of issues. As the stage 1 report points out, the com...
The Deputy Minister for Justice (Hugh Henry):
Lab
The encouraging part of today's debate was the will that exists across Parliament for further measures to be taken to give added protection to young people, ...
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
NPA
Briefly, please. You have about another minute, minister.