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Chamber

Plenary, 25 Nov 2004

25 Nov 2004 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Food (Supermarkets)
Johnstone, Alex Con North East Scotland Watch on SPTV
I begin by drawing the attention of members to my entry in the register of members' interests. My entry shows that I am a farmer but, to give more full information, I should say that I am a dairy farmer and am a contracted supplier to Robert Wiseman Dairies.

It is interesting that the Greens should have lodged the motion that we are debating today, given that it relies heavily on much of the information that the NFU Scotland has put to the Parliament through its lobbying in recent weeks and by other means. That said, having heard some of the opening speeches in the debate and some of the comments that members of the Green party have made in their interventions, it seems that they decided to focus the debate on their belief that we should be attacking global capitalism. The Greens are trying to prevent the benefits of free trade from filtering down to the ordinary people who benefit from the existence of supermarkets. People use supermarkets because they provide quality at competitive prices. Supermarkets also allow people to spend a much smaller proportion of their income on food than was the case in the past.

For example, the town of Arbroath in the north-east of Scotland has only one supermarket at the moment to serve a population of about 25,000 people. Several applications have been made to build another supermarket in the town—indeed, quite some competition has emerged to get permission to do that. The consistent view of the people of Arbroath and the surrounding area is that they want another supermarket, because they want competition in the retail sector in the town. They do not want to have to go out of the town to benefit from cheap supermarket food, which is a benefit that is acquired through competition.

Although I believe that supermarkets serve an important purpose in the production of cheap food, I also agree that there is a problem with them. In that regard, I turn to Fergus Ewing's remarks about the abolition of the milk marketing boards. Given that he does not have my experience of going through that process, I remind him that undertaking collective bargaining on behalf of the farmer was not one of the roles of the supermarket, whereas the role of the milk marketing boards was to set a price that was acceptable to processors and buyers. Ultimately, their role was to guarantee the survival of the farmer, but they had to do that at the same time as guaranteeing that the price of milk was kept down.

As a result, in the early 1990s, a lot of pressure was put on the Government to end the regulatory process and allow the market to deliver a fairer return. I can vouch for the fact that, after the milk marketing boards were abolished in the autumn of 1994, milk prices rose—not by a little but by a lot. In my experience, the price of milk rose by 22 per cent to a peak in early 1997. That rise in price was the benefit that came from releasing milk production from the regulatory process. However, those who bought milk were not subject to the same regulation as those who sold it. Consequently, the opportunity was taken more recently to manipulate the process through which milk passes before it is sold to the consumer. At the end of the day, the process has ensured that too much of the profit lands in the hands of the retailer and not nearly enough in the hands of those who are lower down the process.

If we are to follow the terms of the motion in this debate about supermarkets, I agree that we have to talk about regulation and competition, but therein lies the problem: we need to ensure that we have a regulatory environment that allows fair competition across the board, which means that those who produce milk in Scotland need to act for their own benefit. Action is happening in that respect—I refer to the attempt to integrate the interests of co-operatives and those of the processors that is under way as a result of First Milk Ltd taking a shareholding in Robert Wiseman Dairies. In a small country such as Scotland, we can never afford to believe that one company can actually hold a monopoly. I hope that the link between First Milk and Robert Wiseman Dairies is the start of an integration that will be fruitful in the long term.

Dairy farmers need the support of the minister, who said that his department has had discussions with the Office of Fair Trading. We need to ensure that he makes strong representations on behalf of Scottish dairy farmers and that he takes the opportunity to point out the imbalance that has emerged in the market.

An inquiry was held in the House of Commons into the milk trade. Having looked at the committee report, perhaps through rose-coloured spectacles, I feel that the wool was pulled over committee members' eyes on that occasion. The supermarkets seemed to manage to give the distinct impression that somebody else—and not them—was profiteering.

However, the facts speak for themselves. Milk prices have fallen back from the peak in the mid-1990s to only 17p or 18p a litre, the level that the majority of farmers are being paid today. The margin that is being made by the dairy companies is clearly identifiable, because they publish their profits and the number of litres that they process in a year. It is clear that companies such as Robert Wiseman are making at or just under 2.5p per litre for processing milk.

As a consequence, somebody, somewhere, is soaking up 18 pence of the typical milk price and the only suspects are the supermarkets. If we are not to see a level playing field in competition regulation, we will have to look closely at the implementation of the supermarket code of practice. In the first instance, if it can be enforced through negotiation, it can be made to deliver for farmers.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid): NPA
Good morning. The first item of business is a debate on motion S2M-2056, in the name of Shiona Baird, on supermarkets and the Scottish food chain, and three ...
Shiona Baird (North East Scotland) (Green): Green
In this debate on food and supermarkets, we need to ask ourselves some fundamental questions about how well we, as a society and a nation, are being served b...
Alex Fergusson (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (Con): Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Shiona Baird: Green
No, I really must keep going.Meanwhile, back in the high street, specialised stores, including butchers, bakers, fishmongers and newsagents, are closing at a...
Alasdair Morgan (South of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
Does the member concede that one of the problems for those of us who have some sympathy with what she is saying is that where we are going is a result of con...
Shiona Baird: Green
That is exactly what I am trying to point out. The choice is being taken away by the four major retailers. Where is the choice, if the local butchers and the...
Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab): Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Shiona Baird: Green
No.A recent survey by the Food Commission showed that buying a basket of those healthy options from a supermarket cost 51 per cent more than buying a basket ...
George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD): LD
We have heard a litany of the problems and, as Alasdair Morgan pointed out, we have some sympathy with what the member is saying, but what is the Green solut...
Shiona Baird: Green
That just illustrates the paucity of the member's argument.
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP): SNP
Answer the question.
Shiona Baird: Green
I will answer the question.What we want is fair trade—the farmers themselves talk about that. We want a fair balance between the big retailers, and a real ch...
Dr Jackson: Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Shiona Baird: Green
No, I have had eight minutes already.That is why the Green party wants and expects the Executive to put pressure on Westminster to ensure that our farmers an...
The Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Ross Finnie): LD
I am certainly not here this morning to champion the supermarkets, but, quite honestly, the appalling scattergun approach of the Greens is simply not credibl...
Shiona Baird: Green
Is the minister listening to the NFUS?
Ross Finnie: LD
I am listening to the NFUS, and I will come back to that.Of course there are problems in some sectors, which I will address, and problems with enforcement of...
Mark Ballard (Lothians) (Green): Green
The minister talks about choice. The people of Portobello, in my region, will face the devastation of their high street if a new supermarket is built there. ...
Ross Finnie: LD
Rather than being an intervention, that was probably a more forceful speech than the one that we heard earlier. Interestingly enough, however, it was about p...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con): Con
On vertically integrated co-operatives in the dairy sector, the sector has believed hitherto that it will be difficult to achieve vertical integration and ac...
Ross Finnie: LD
My officials have had discussions on that subject with the Office of Fair Trading and our understanding is that a properly planned programme that sets out ho...
Mr Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green): Green
When the OFT reports on the code of practice and its failings—we all know that it has failed—what will the Executive do? What representation will the ministe...
Ross Finnie: LD
As always, I will await the outcome of the report before deciding on the tactics and strategy that I will take. We are looking, I hope, for that report to po...
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP): SNP
In the light of European Union directives, what influence can the minister have on public procurement of locally produced food? What guidance will he give so...
Ross Finnie: LD
I understand that. As I indicated, we have launched new guidelines for the public sector to try to ensure that there is a wider range of public procurement, ...
Fergus Ewing (Inverness East, Nairn and Lochaber) (SNP): SNP
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Ross Finnie: LD
No. I must move on, as I think that I am running out of time.We are keen to ensure that we implement the "Organic Action Plan" to improve the quality and ran...
Richard Lochhead (North East Scotland) (SNP): SNP
There is no doubt that the supermarkets, thanks to their ingenuity and chilling business acumen, have changed the way in which we shop, eat and think in this...
Ross Finnie: LD
I share the member's concern and frustration, but I hope that he accepts that if he were ever to be a minister and the Food Standards Agency produced a repor...
Richard Lochhead: SNP
If I were the minister, I would ask myself what the purpose of establishing the Food Standards Agency was. Its role is to give the Government independent adv...