Chamber
Plenary, 26 Feb 2004
26 Feb 2004 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Young People
Last year was the second best year for participation in the Airborne Initiative, but the fact that the programme has had problems and has found it difficult to reach full capacity does not render it worthless. As I said, the nature of the programme and the nature of the offenders it deals with almost make it inevitable that problems will exist. However, where there is evidence that something is worth while and is making a contribution to solving a problem—and although Airborne is by no stretch of the imagination making the only or even the biggest contribution, it is making a worthy contribution—I suggest that the Scottish Executive should turn its mind to addressing how to help it to solve its problems, rather than simply pull the rug from under it.
As the principal funder of the project, the Scottish Executive would be quite within its rights to insist on changes to the operating methods of Airborne, but it has not done so. Instead, it has asserted, with no evidence, that the initiative does not provide value for money. I have just cited the figures of £116 a week when the project is full. Even if the project is only half-full, the costs would still be almost half the cost of a prison place. To my knowledge, the Scottish Executive has never challenged the figures. What people object to is the fact that a decision has been taken that does not appear to be based on hard, solid evidence.
In any event—this is the point on which I will close—there is a danger that week-for-week comparisons miss the point. Someone who is referred to Airborne, or any project remotely like it, is, at the point of referral, heading for a life of crime—a life in and out of prison with all the costs that that will entail over a number of years for the public purse. Even if Airborne is not successful all the time, when it is successful it prevents that from happening. I listened to a chap yesterday who had gone through the Airborne project. He had been in and out of prison, but is now in employment and about to set up his own business. When the project is successful, it turns people who would otherwise spend most of their lives in jail into citizens who make a contribution to society, get jobs and pay taxes. How can that be quantified in pounds and pence?
My amendment asks the Scottish Executive not to make a snap judgment today to reverse the decision, but to reflect on the arguments that are being made in support of Airborne—and on the expertise of those making them—and to think again. The amendment asks for common sense and a listening ear and I hope that members of all parties can unite to support it.
I move amendment S2M-943.1, to insert at end:
"and calls on the Executive, as part of its overall strategy to address the offending behaviour of young people, to reconsider its decision to withdraw funding from the Airborne Initiative."
As the principal funder of the project, the Scottish Executive would be quite within its rights to insist on changes to the operating methods of Airborne, but it has not done so. Instead, it has asserted, with no evidence, that the initiative does not provide value for money. I have just cited the figures of £116 a week when the project is full. Even if the project is only half-full, the costs would still be almost half the cost of a prison place. To my knowledge, the Scottish Executive has never challenged the figures. What people object to is the fact that a decision has been taken that does not appear to be based on hard, solid evidence.
In any event—this is the point on which I will close—there is a danger that week-for-week comparisons miss the point. Someone who is referred to Airborne, or any project remotely like it, is, at the point of referral, heading for a life of crime—a life in and out of prison with all the costs that that will entail over a number of years for the public purse. Even if Airborne is not successful all the time, when it is successful it prevents that from happening. I listened to a chap yesterday who had gone through the Airborne project. He had been in and out of prison, but is now in employment and about to set up his own business. When the project is successful, it turns people who would otherwise spend most of their lives in jail into citizens who make a contribution to society, get jobs and pay taxes. How can that be quantified in pounds and pence?
My amendment asks the Scottish Executive not to make a snap judgment today to reverse the decision, but to reflect on the arguments that are being made in support of Airborne—and on the expertise of those making them—and to think again. The amendment asks for common sense and a listening ear and I hope that members of all parties can unite to support it.
I move amendment S2M-943.1, to insert at end:
"and calls on the Executive, as part of its overall strategy to address the offending behaviour of young people, to reconsider its decision to withdraw funding from the Airborne Initiative."
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
NPA
The first item of business this morning is a debate on motion S2M-943, in the name of Peter Peacock, on a better deal for young people, and on two amendments...
The Minister for Education and Young People (Peter Peacock):
Lab
I have made clear in the chamber before how much the Executive values the rich contribution that Scotland's young people make to our national life. We value ...
Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
The minister may be aware of the concerns that have been expressed on a number of occasions about the restrictions that the Data Protection Act 1998 could pl...
Peter Peacock:
Lab
Absolutely. We are investing, through the modernising government fund, to enable secure sharing of data among service providers while protecting people's rig...
Stewart Stevenson (Banff and Buchan) (SNP):
SNP
Although between 2001-02 and 2002-03 the number of children who were referred for offences seems to have dropped, there was an increase of more than 10 per c...
Peter Peacock:
Lab
There are many things that we seek to do for those young people, through the work of Margaret Curran and others. One reason why we introduced the fast-track ...
Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD):
LD
Will the minister give way?
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con) rose—
Con
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
Will the minister give way?
Peter Peacock:
Lab
As I have already given way to Fiona Hyslop, I will give way to Lord James.
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I call Fiona Hyslop.
Peter Peacock:
Lab
No, I am giving way to Lord James.
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton:
Con
I am happy to allow Fiona Hyslop to intervene.
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
Thank you very much, gentlemen. I appreciate what the Executive is saying about looked-after children. However, we seem to be setting lower standards for loo...
Peter Peacock:
Lab
I take the rare opportunity to agree with Fiona Hyslop, at least on her first point. We are saying clearly that we are not doing enough for those young peopl...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
Not in the least this morning. We have time.
Peter Peacock:
Lab
In that case, I am happy to give way to Lord James Douglas-Hamilton.
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton:
Con
Before the minister finishes his speech, will he state his position on the mandatory drug testing of young children in schools?
Peter Peacock:
Lab
We take extremely seriously the issues of drug use and drug supply in schools. We want those issues to be tackled in the most effective ways possible. Lord J...
Mr Raffan:
LD
I wanted to ask about truancy. There are some excellent anti-truancy projects, not least the one in Alloa, of which the minister might be aware. Will he say ...
Peter Peacock:
Lab
I take this opportunity to agree with Keith Raffan. One thing that we are seeking to address much more effectively in schools is the whole business of truanc...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
The minister might be aware that there are some difficulties in accessing child psychological services. That has become an on-going problem for a number of y...
Peter Peacock:
Lab
Karen Gillon raises an important point. As part of the overall system, child psychologists are crucial at certain periods. A lack of child psychologists in t...
Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
The debate is welcome. It is important that we focus on the positive contribution that the overwhelming majority of young people make to society as well as o...
Mr Raffan:
LD
I agree with Nicola Sturgeon on the cycle of reoffending. Does she, too, think it interesting that the former chief inspectors of prisons for England and Wal...
Nicola Sturgeon:
SNP
Keith Raffan's point is extremely valuable and important. Later, I will talk about what I consider to be the formidable expert opinion in Scotland in support...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
I welcome the SNP's support for Airborne. Unfortunately, that support was not evident in the constituency when Airborne was facing a difficult move to Braidw...
Nicola Sturgeon:
SNP
Last year was the second best year for participation in the Airborne Initiative, but the fact that the programme has had problems and has found it difficult ...
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con):
Con
My interests are as registered in the register of members' interests. I welcome the debate this morning. Having read the Executive's motion, I see that it to...
Mike Rumbles (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD):
LD
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton refers in his amendment to the schools passport policy. How much money from scarce public resources would go to the substantial s...