Chamber
Plenary, 12 Feb 2004
12 Feb 2004 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Sewage Dumping
I congratulate Rosemary Byrne on securing the debate. Although I do not agree with the entire content of her motion, it is important that we are able to debate the subject in the Parliament.
I say that for a number of reasons. Unlike Roseanna Cunningham, I have not spent the past 48 hours researching the issue; I have spent the past two and a half months meeting the organisations involved—SEPA, South Lanarkshire Council, Scottish Coal and Terra Eco.Systems—to try to obtain the information that I think my constituents deserve.
There are some common threads that we need to consider, one of which is community consultation on such issues. The failure of organisations to communicate effectively with local constituents allows misinformation and lies to become the truth; I found out about the proposal for Dalquhandy through newspapers and television. We need to deal with that important factor.
It is regrettable that a full planning application was not required for the Dalquhandy site. If no planning condition had been attached to that site on 23 January 2003 in relation to its restoration, no planning permission at all would be required, because the activity in question is exempt under the Waste Management Licensing Amendment (Scotland) Regulations 2003 (SSI 2003/171). The fact that South Lanarkshire Council had the foresight to attach planning conditions to the restoration of the site at Dalquhandy means that a full planning application will be required, should the trial go ahead and be successful.
I have discussed the trial with the council, because I believe that a planning application would have been preferable. I understand that the council will allow a trial involving 10,000 tonnes to go ahead—subject to further discussions with SEPA and the companies involved—for precisely the reasons that members have mentioned, which relate to the need to ascertain how the smell affects people and what the environmental impacts will be.
It is unfortunate that the issue has become one of constitutional shite—if you like—and where it comes from. It is clear that, if there is Scottish waste to be disposed of, it should be disposed of here in Scotland. The proximity issue is important and I have raised it in my meetings with the companies.
I hope that other members will take up the offer to go to meet people and discuss the issues with them, rather than come to the chamber perhaps not as fully informed as they could be. I do not want my constituents to be more concerned as a result of the debate than they were before it because members do not have the correct information.
I say that for a number of reasons. Unlike Roseanna Cunningham, I have not spent the past 48 hours researching the issue; I have spent the past two and a half months meeting the organisations involved—SEPA, South Lanarkshire Council, Scottish Coal and Terra Eco.Systems—to try to obtain the information that I think my constituents deserve.
There are some common threads that we need to consider, one of which is community consultation on such issues. The failure of organisations to communicate effectively with local constituents allows misinformation and lies to become the truth; I found out about the proposal for Dalquhandy through newspapers and television. We need to deal with that important factor.
It is regrettable that a full planning application was not required for the Dalquhandy site. If no planning condition had been attached to that site on 23 January 2003 in relation to its restoration, no planning permission at all would be required, because the activity in question is exempt under the Waste Management Licensing Amendment (Scotland) Regulations 2003 (SSI 2003/171). The fact that South Lanarkshire Council had the foresight to attach planning conditions to the restoration of the site at Dalquhandy means that a full planning application will be required, should the trial go ahead and be successful.
I have discussed the trial with the council, because I believe that a planning application would have been preferable. I understand that the council will allow a trial involving 10,000 tonnes to go ahead—subject to further discussions with SEPA and the companies involved—for precisely the reasons that members have mentioned, which relate to the need to ascertain how the smell affects people and what the environmental impacts will be.
It is unfortunate that the issue has become one of constitutional shite—if you like—and where it comes from. It is clear that, if there is Scottish waste to be disposed of, it should be disposed of here in Scotland. The proximity issue is important and I have raised it in my meetings with the companies.
I hope that other members will take up the offer to go to meet people and discuss the issues with them, rather than come to the chamber perhaps not as fully informed as they could be. I do not want my constituents to be more concerned as a result of the debate than they were before it because members do not have the correct information.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
The final item of business is a members' business debate on motion S2M-770, in the name of Rosemary Byrne, on sewage dumping.
Motion debated,
That the Parliament accepts that the dumping of untreated or semi-treated sewage on land is a revolting concept to the public with potentially devastating he...
Ms Rosemary Byrne (South of Scotland) (SSP):
SSP
First, I thank members for staying behind for this debate and for taking so much interest in it. I have not stopped receiving e-mails and phone calls today; ...
Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
I just want to record that when I was a member of the previous Public Petitions Committee, Dorothy-Grace Elder carried out quite a lot of work on Blairingone.
Ms Byrne:
SSP
I am aware of that, and I am sure that we can learn lessons from those who were involved in that work.It appears that sewage is being disposed of in communit...
Roseanna Cunningham (Perth) (SNP):
SNP
I congratulate Rosemary Byrne on securing this debate and on raising a very important issue in the chamber. I also congratulate the Upperward against polluti...
The Deputy Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Allan Wilson):
Lab
Does the member accept that that information might not be right? Thames Water deposits solid wastes in the Thames valley.
Roseanna Cunningham:
SNP
A great deal of investigation has been carried out in the past 48 hours on the reasoning behind the situation. The advice that we have been given is that the...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
I congratulate Rosemary Byrne on securing the debate. Although I do not agree with the entire content of her motion, it is important that we are able to deba...
Ms Byrne:
SSP
Will Karen Gillon elaborate on what she means by saying that members are not fully informed?
Karen Gillon:
Lab
I ask the member if she has met SEPA to discuss the issues that she has raised and, if so, what answers SEPA gave. I had a two-and-a-half hour meeting with S...
Ms Byrne:
SSP
Can I answer the member's question?
Karen Gillon:
Lab
I am afraid not. I must take SEPA at its word. The minister will have to ascertain whether there is a problem with the regulatory regime in relation to SEPA....
David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
I congratulate Rosemary Byrne on instigating the debate. She has done a great deal of work on the issue, such as lodging questions and raising issues in Parl...
Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD):
LD
I thank the Deputy Minister for Environment and Rural Development for his permission for me to say a few words on a constituency matter. The village of Newca...
Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I, too, congratulate Rosemary Byrne on securing the debate. I tick off David Mundell, who knows perfectly well that my colleague Alasdair Morgan has taken a ...
Chris Ballance (South of Scotland) (Green):
Green
I congratulate Rosemary Byrne on the motion and on her work in raising the profile of the issue that we are discussing.There are three problems. First, sewag...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
A short extension to the time allowed for the debate would enable me to call the few remaining members who wish to speak. I am minded to accept a motion unde...
Motion moved,
That the Parliament agrees that, under Rule 8.14.3, the debate be extended by five minutes.—Alasdair Morgan.
Motion agreed to.
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
As a member of the Environment and Rural Development Committee, I was made aware of the issue slightly later than the local members. Concerns have been raise...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
Only three weeks ago, I brokered a meeting with Scottish Coal, Thames Water and Terra Eco.Systems to which representatives of the Upperward against pollution...
Rob Gibson:
SNP
I am glad to hear that some attempt has been made. We are trying to find means of having these communications out in the open at an early stage, but the evid...
Mr Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green):
Green
Like others, I congratulate Rosemary Byrne on securing a debate on this controversial topic. The use of human waste as a fertiliser is controversial not only...
Alasdair Morgan (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Public consultation on the issue has been significantly lacking. At the well-attended meeting in Douglas to which I went, many people did not know what was g...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
I call the minister to wind up. He has seven minutes.
The Deputy Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Allan Wilson):
Lab
I will be as brief as I can, but these are serious issues.I add my congratulations to Rosemary Byrne on securing tonight's debate, because the Executive ackn...
Mr Ingram:
SNP
I hear what the minister is saying, but does he recognise that there is inconsistency in the way that the water companies treat sludge at the point of produc...