Chamber
Plenary, 12 Feb 2004
12 Feb 2004 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Sewage Dumping
I congratulate Rosemary Byrne on securing this debate and on raising a very important issue in the chamber. I also congratulate the Upperward against pollution campaign group on its work in highlighting this issue. Members of the local community have been in to talk to SNP MSPs this week. We were—as I am sure everyone in the chamber will be—stunned to learn the details that lie behind this debate.
There is an understandable tendency towards bad puns when discussing this matter, but a number of very serious issues arise—not least the potential threat to the health and quality of life of the communities affected.
Before I go on, I want to say that I recollect that the former Transport and the Environment Committee did a great deal of work on this issue in the previous session of the Parliament. The members of that committee should be commended for their work. The present Presiding Officer of the Parliament, George Reid, worked very hard on behalf of the community at Blairingone when it was dealing with the same problem. The problem is not new.
I would be the first to argue for the extension of biomass projects in Scotland. They have an important contribution to make to the mix of renewable energies. However, I sincerely regret that a very sensible scheme to grow willow trees, ultimately for electricity generation, has become embroiled in this farce. In fact, I am really not sure why willow has to be fertilised to this extent; in my experience, all that is needed to get willow to grow is to stick a bit in the ground. I suspect that what has been important has been the public subsidy that is available to Scottish Coal to take waste off the hands of English authorities.
Another aspect that has to be addressed is the community right to be heard. It is simply unacceptable for thousands of tonnes of untreated or semi-treated sewage waste to be dumped in Scotland without any input from the planning authorities, leaving local communities with no say.
On a range of problems, communities' right to be heard is beginning to be a problem throughout Scotland. That is a serious issue that we must face up to, not only in the present context, but in connection with many other areas. The fact that communities feel that they are simply not being heard needs to be examined seriously.
It is worth considering that Thames Water would not be allowed to dump its sewage south of the border in the way that it is doing in Scotland; the fact that it can cart it up here to be dumped surely cannot be right. I see that the minister is looking puzzled, but that is the information that we have been given as part of our preparation for the debate.
There is an understandable tendency towards bad puns when discussing this matter, but a number of very serious issues arise—not least the potential threat to the health and quality of life of the communities affected.
Before I go on, I want to say that I recollect that the former Transport and the Environment Committee did a great deal of work on this issue in the previous session of the Parliament. The members of that committee should be commended for their work. The present Presiding Officer of the Parliament, George Reid, worked very hard on behalf of the community at Blairingone when it was dealing with the same problem. The problem is not new.
I would be the first to argue for the extension of biomass projects in Scotland. They have an important contribution to make to the mix of renewable energies. However, I sincerely regret that a very sensible scheme to grow willow trees, ultimately for electricity generation, has become embroiled in this farce. In fact, I am really not sure why willow has to be fertilised to this extent; in my experience, all that is needed to get willow to grow is to stick a bit in the ground. I suspect that what has been important has been the public subsidy that is available to Scottish Coal to take waste off the hands of English authorities.
Another aspect that has to be addressed is the community right to be heard. It is simply unacceptable for thousands of tonnes of untreated or semi-treated sewage waste to be dumped in Scotland without any input from the planning authorities, leaving local communities with no say.
On a range of problems, communities' right to be heard is beginning to be a problem throughout Scotland. That is a serious issue that we must face up to, not only in the present context, but in connection with many other areas. The fact that communities feel that they are simply not being heard needs to be examined seriously.
It is worth considering that Thames Water would not be allowed to dump its sewage south of the border in the way that it is doing in Scotland; the fact that it can cart it up here to be dumped surely cannot be right. I see that the minister is looking puzzled, but that is the information that we have been given as part of our preparation for the debate.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Trish Godman):
Lab
The final item of business is a members' business debate on motion S2M-770, in the name of Rosemary Byrne, on sewage dumping.
Motion debated,
That the Parliament accepts that the dumping of untreated or semi-treated sewage on land is a revolting concept to the public with potentially devastating he...
Ms Rosemary Byrne (South of Scotland) (SSP):
SSP
First, I thank members for staying behind for this debate and for taking so much interest in it. I have not stopped receiving e-mails and phone calls today; ...
Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
I just want to record that when I was a member of the previous Public Petitions Committee, Dorothy-Grace Elder carried out quite a lot of work on Blairingone.
Ms Byrne:
SSP
I am aware of that, and I am sure that we can learn lessons from those who were involved in that work.It appears that sewage is being disposed of in communit...
Roseanna Cunningham (Perth) (SNP):
SNP
I congratulate Rosemary Byrne on securing this debate and on raising a very important issue in the chamber. I also congratulate the Upperward against polluti...
The Deputy Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Allan Wilson):
Lab
Does the member accept that that information might not be right? Thames Water deposits solid wastes in the Thames valley.
Roseanna Cunningham:
SNP
A great deal of investigation has been carried out in the past 48 hours on the reasoning behind the situation. The advice that we have been given is that the...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
I congratulate Rosemary Byrne on securing the debate. Although I do not agree with the entire content of her motion, it is important that we are able to deba...
Ms Byrne:
SSP
Will Karen Gillon elaborate on what she means by saying that members are not fully informed?
Karen Gillon:
Lab
I ask the member if she has met SEPA to discuss the issues that she has raised and, if so, what answers SEPA gave. I had a two-and-a-half hour meeting with S...
Ms Byrne:
SSP
Can I answer the member's question?
Karen Gillon:
Lab
I am afraid not. I must take SEPA at its word. The minister will have to ascertain whether there is a problem with the regulatory regime in relation to SEPA....
David Mundell (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
I congratulate Rosemary Byrne on instigating the debate. She has done a great deal of work on the issue, such as lodging questions and raising issues in Parl...
Euan Robson (Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (LD):
LD
I thank the Deputy Minister for Environment and Rural Development for his permission for me to say a few words on a constituency matter. The village of Newca...
Mr Adam Ingram (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I, too, congratulate Rosemary Byrne on securing the debate. I tick off David Mundell, who knows perfectly well that my colleague Alasdair Morgan has taken a ...
Chris Ballance (South of Scotland) (Green):
Green
I congratulate Rosemary Byrne on the motion and on her work in raising the profile of the issue that we are discussing.There are three problems. First, sewag...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
A short extension to the time allowed for the debate would enable me to call the few remaining members who wish to speak. I am minded to accept a motion unde...
Motion moved,
That the Parliament agrees that, under Rule 8.14.3, the debate be extended by five minutes.—Alasdair Morgan.
Motion agreed to.
Rob Gibson (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
As a member of the Environment and Rural Development Committee, I was made aware of the issue slightly later than the local members. Concerns have been raise...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
Only three weeks ago, I brokered a meeting with Scottish Coal, Thames Water and Terra Eco.Systems to which representatives of the Upperward against pollution...
Rob Gibson:
SNP
I am glad to hear that some attempt has been made. We are trying to find means of having these communications out in the open at an early stage, but the evid...
Mr Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green):
Green
Like others, I congratulate Rosemary Byrne on securing a debate on this controversial topic. The use of human waste as a fertiliser is controversial not only...
Alasdair Morgan (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Public consultation on the issue has been significantly lacking. At the well-attended meeting in Douglas to which I went, many people did not know what was g...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Lab
I call the minister to wind up. He has seven minutes.
The Deputy Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Allan Wilson):
Lab
I will be as brief as I can, but these are serious issues.I add my congratulations to Rosemary Byrne on securing tonight's debate, because the Executive ackn...
Mr Ingram:
SNP
I hear what the minister is saying, but does he recognise that there is inconsistency in the way that the water companies treat sludge at the point of produc...