Chamber
Plenary, 08 Oct 2003
08 Oct 2003 · S2 · Plenary
Item of business
Scottish Fire and Rescue Service
The member raises an interesting point, which we will certainly wish to consider. We will be happy to pick up on that, and I am sure that the member, who has a particular interest in the matter, will submit his thoughts on it during the consultation.
I turn to fire safety reform. We will continue to reflect the key aim of reducing risk. Much of the existing legislation is bureaucratic, and focuses on getting people out of their workplace after a fire has started. Instead, we want to put in place a regime that is intended to reduce the chance of a fire starting in the first place. To complement those changes, we intend to ensure that fire and rescue authorities are organised in a way that maximises their freedom of operation. Our aim is to allow authorities to concentrate on the delivery of their core duties. The Local Government in Scotland Act 2003, which places a duty of best value on fire authorities, but also provides them with the power to advance well-being, goes a considerable way towards providing the statutory basis for pursuing optimum service delivery.
However, we are clear about the fact that disjointed or inefficient use of resources cannot continue. In the police and fire service structure review that was carried out in 1998, and again in our policy paper "The Scottish Fire Service of The Future", we ruled out any reduction in the number of brigades. However, the move by the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister to reduce the number of brigades in England from 47 brigades to nine regional brigades highlights the need for us to examine again whether or not our position is sustainable. I am aware that people have strong views on the issue and I stress that there will be genuine, open consultation. I look forward to hearing what people have to say. For that reason, we are actively seeking respondents' views on the best structure for the service.
I turn to fire safety reform. We will continue to reflect the key aim of reducing risk. Much of the existing legislation is bureaucratic, and focuses on getting people out of their workplace after a fire has started. Instead, we want to put in place a regime that is intended to reduce the chance of a fire starting in the first place. To complement those changes, we intend to ensure that fire and rescue authorities are organised in a way that maximises their freedom of operation. Our aim is to allow authorities to concentrate on the delivery of their core duties. The Local Government in Scotland Act 2003, which places a duty of best value on fire authorities, but also provides them with the power to advance well-being, goes a considerable way towards providing the statutory basis for pursuing optimum service delivery.
However, we are clear about the fact that disjointed or inefficient use of resources cannot continue. In the police and fire service structure review that was carried out in 1998, and again in our policy paper "The Scottish Fire Service of The Future", we ruled out any reduction in the number of brigades. However, the move by the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister to reduce the number of brigades in England from 47 brigades to nine regional brigades highlights the need for us to examine again whether or not our position is sustainable. I am aware that people have strong views on the issue and I stress that there will be genuine, open consultation. I look forward to hearing what people have to say. For that reason, we are actively seeking respondents' views on the best structure for the service.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S2M-456, in the name of Cathy Jamieson, on proposals for legislation on the Scottish fire and rescue service,...
The Minister for Justice (Cathy Jamieson):
Lab
The Executive has initiated this debate to give the Parliament an early opportunity to discuss our continued commitment to the fire service in Scotland follo...
Alasdair Morgan (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
On the division between statutory and non-statutory duties, will the minister say what thought has been given to the role of the fire service in relation to ...
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
The member raises an interesting point, which we will certainly wish to consider. We will be happy to pick up on that, and I am sure that the member, who has...
Mr David Davidson (North East Scotland) (Con):
Con
The minister is giving the impression that because John Prescott's department has decided to do something, she should automatically follow. What made her cha...
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
It is not the case that because one department does something others should automatically follow. However, when considering how to provide the best structure...
Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
Will the minister give way?
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
I would like to move on.We see both greater collaboration between brigades and a common approach in certain areas as having considerable benefits. Last year ...
Christine May (Central Fife) (Lab):
Lab
Will the minister give way?
Alex Neil (Central Scotland) (SNP) rose—
SNP
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
I will give way after I have finished making this point.Finally, we want specifically to examine whether a better, more efficient control room service could ...
Christine May:
Lab
Does the minister agree that the input of the Fire Brigades Union will be essential in obtaining a key section of views in all the consultations?
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
I agree wholeheartedly. As I outlined earlier, in advance of issuing the consultation paper I had a very productive meeting with the Fire Brigades Union. I h...
Alex Neil:
SNP
Will the minister give way?
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
I am running out of time.We want there to be efficient and modern appointment, promotion and discipline processes for the people who work for the service. Th...
Nicola Sturgeon (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
I will begin by paying tribute to Scotland's firefighters, who do a tremendous job on our behalf, often in difficult circumstances and at great personal risk...
The Deputy Minister for Justice (Hugh Henry):
Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Nicola Sturgeon:
SNP
I am in my final few seconds. To the extent that the proposals contribute to that aim, they will have the support of the SNP. However, if they do not, we wil...
Miss Annabel Goldie (West of Scotland) (Con):
Con
I welcome the opportunity to debate the provision of a Scottish fire and rescue service, about which I am sure that there will be areas of common accord, not...
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
I welcome Annabel Goldie's comments. Does she accept that what I tried to lay out in the document and in my speech today is the need to get the right balance...
Miss Goldie:
Con
Yes, and I was comforted by the observations in that connection. I do not think that there is any objection to the need for the Executive to have a strategic...
Christine May:
Lab
Will the member give way?
Miss Goldie:
Con
I am short of time. I am sorry.If one examines the pattern that I have described, it can be seen that any reduction in the number of brigades could reduce th...
Frances Curran (West of Scotland) (SSP):
SSP
I am aware that a consultation process is beginning, but I always ask what a consultation is on. Is it on modernising the fire service? When I hear the word ...
Dr Sylvia Jackson (Stirling) (Lab):
Lab
The member seems totally adverse to modernisation. Does she not accept that, after 11 September, terrorism and decontamination issues mean that the fire serv...
Frances Curran:
SSP
It is the word "modernising" that I have a problem with. Account can be taken of those issues and investment can be made to deal with them, as the pathfinder...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
I do not know whether Frances Curran suggests that, following the logic of her argument, we should do away with chief fire officers and fire boards and have ...
Frances Curran:
SSP
I will come to that point. At the moment, those issues are devolved and there is no clear safeguard for national standards that involves all the participants...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
Will the member give way?
Frances Curran:
SSP
I have taken two interventions already. As I get less time than other members, I have only two minutes of my speech left.I ask the Deputy Minister for Justic...