Chamber
Plenary, 27 Mar 2003
27 Mar 2003 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Closing the Opportunity Gap for Older People
A couple of weeks ago, my six-and-a-half-year-old granddaughter asked me, "Have you ever met Queen Victoria?" I sort of looked at her and asked, "Do you not mean the Queen?" She said, "No, Queen Victoria." I must admit that I think that she was put up to it.
One important thing that has not been mentioned in the debate so far is the lack of communication between the elderly and the young. For a number of reasons, there was far more communication between the old and the young 30 or 40 years ago, when large numbers of people were employed in the same firm and people came through apprenticeships. Apprentices would start quite young and would be in contact with people who were in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and even beyond.
I started as an office boy at 16 years of age. In those days, it was not possible to be promoted beyond an office boy until it was seen whether the call came for national service at the age of 18. I recall that our office had not only the likes of myself who was 16, but two men who were over 70 years of age. One of them was the head clerk, who had started as an office boy in the same firm when Queen Victoria was in the last few years of her reign. There was that mix between the young, the middle-aged and the old.
Under national service, a large chunk of the male population saw that mix. The 18 and 19-year-olds had to meet corporals and sergeants who would be in their 20s, 30s and 40s. Because all those things have largely disappeared, a type of division has occurred.
We set down certain age markers, such as 60 and 65, but we should bear it in mind that at the beginning of the 20th century only about 60 people in this country were reckoned to have reached 100 years of age, whereas today almost 6,000 people are reckoned to come within that category. Again, world heavyweight boxing champions such as Jack Dempsey tended to retire at 31 years of age. In the past few years, people such as Riddick Bowe have fought for the same title at 45 years of age. Colonel Glenn, who was latterly a senator, went back into space at 77 years of age. We perhaps require new markers for age.
I think that it would be useful if a future Scottish Parliament reserved eight seats. Four would be for people over 65 years of age who would be appointed for one year on a rotating system. The other four seats would go to people under 21 years of age, again for one year only on a rotating system. That would be a useful exercise, which could be done outwith the mainstream elections.
We have heard all sorts of contributions today and I thank Donald Gorrie for his kind remarks. I think that the next Parliament should establish a poet laureate and Ian Jenkins would be the obvious man for that job. It might be a new departure to have such a thing in a Scottish Parliament.
Finally, a number of years ago in the United States, the Republican and Democrat parties recognised the value of what they called grey power as a huge voting block. There is the possibility that grey power in this country will become more organised as a voting block that any politician ignores at their peril. If a mass of grey-power people come together, they will be able to decide the outcome of not only Scottish Parliament elections, but Westminster elections.
On that happy note, it remains only for me to thank everybody for their kind wishes for the future. I have no intention of simply putting my slippers on, or of watching the afternoon television and all that sort of nonsense. I hope to participate in politics in another direction. I will perhaps consider writing up my experiences of the first four years of the Scottish Parliament.
I was one of the few Conservatives who wanted a Scottish Parliament when we had the declaration of Perth in the 1970s. One man who I am sad to see did not make it here is Brian Meek, the Edinburgh town councillor and journalist. Brian is a fund of knowledge and has been a staunch supporter of the Scottish Parliament, but he is still languishing down the road at Edinburgh City Chambers. Perhaps he will make it here yet.
I thank members very much. I have made good friends across the political spectrum. However, members have not seen the last of me. I will pay the occasional visit to Edinburgh and I may even lead grey-power marches down to Holyrood if members do not behave themselves. Be warned. [Applause.]
One important thing that has not been mentioned in the debate so far is the lack of communication between the elderly and the young. For a number of reasons, there was far more communication between the old and the young 30 or 40 years ago, when large numbers of people were employed in the same firm and people came through apprenticeships. Apprentices would start quite young and would be in contact with people who were in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and even beyond.
I started as an office boy at 16 years of age. In those days, it was not possible to be promoted beyond an office boy until it was seen whether the call came for national service at the age of 18. I recall that our office had not only the likes of myself who was 16, but two men who were over 70 years of age. One of them was the head clerk, who had started as an office boy in the same firm when Queen Victoria was in the last few years of her reign. There was that mix between the young, the middle-aged and the old.
Under national service, a large chunk of the male population saw that mix. The 18 and 19-year-olds had to meet corporals and sergeants who would be in their 20s, 30s and 40s. Because all those things have largely disappeared, a type of division has occurred.
We set down certain age markers, such as 60 and 65, but we should bear it in mind that at the beginning of the 20th century only about 60 people in this country were reckoned to have reached 100 years of age, whereas today almost 6,000 people are reckoned to come within that category. Again, world heavyweight boxing champions such as Jack Dempsey tended to retire at 31 years of age. In the past few years, people such as Riddick Bowe have fought for the same title at 45 years of age. Colonel Glenn, who was latterly a senator, went back into space at 77 years of age. We perhaps require new markers for age.
I think that it would be useful if a future Scottish Parliament reserved eight seats. Four would be for people over 65 years of age who would be appointed for one year on a rotating system. The other four seats would go to people under 21 years of age, again for one year only on a rotating system. That would be a useful exercise, which could be done outwith the mainstream elections.
We have heard all sorts of contributions today and I thank Donald Gorrie for his kind remarks. I think that the next Parliament should establish a poet laureate and Ian Jenkins would be the obvious man for that job. It might be a new departure to have such a thing in a Scottish Parliament.
Finally, a number of years ago in the United States, the Republican and Democrat parties recognised the value of what they called grey power as a huge voting block. There is the possibility that grey power in this country will become more organised as a voting block that any politician ignores at their peril. If a mass of grey-power people come together, they will be able to decide the outcome of not only Scottish Parliament elections, but Westminster elections.
On that happy note, it remains only for me to thank everybody for their kind wishes for the future. I have no intention of simply putting my slippers on, or of watching the afternoon television and all that sort of nonsense. I hope to participate in politics in another direction. I will perhaps consider writing up my experiences of the first four years of the Scottish Parliament.
I was one of the few Conservatives who wanted a Scottish Parliament when we had the declaration of Perth in the 1970s. One man who I am sad to see did not make it here is Brian Meek, the Edinburgh town councillor and journalist. Brian is a fund of knowledge and has been a staunch supporter of the Scottish Parliament, but he is still languishing down the road at Edinburgh City Chambers. Perhaps he will make it here yet.
I thank members very much. I have made good friends across the political spectrum. However, members have not seen the last of me. I will pay the occasional visit to Edinburgh and I may even lead grey-power marches down to Holyrood if members do not behave themselves. Be warned. [Applause.]
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
SNP
Good morning. The first item of business today is a debate on motion S1M-4064, in the name of Margaret Curran, on closing the opportunity gap for older peopl...
Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP):
SSP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer.
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
I will finish the introduction, Mr Sheridan, and then I will call you.Those members who wish to contribute to the debate should please press their request-to...
Tommy Sheridan:
SSP
I have already informed the Presiding Officer's office that the Scottish Coalition for Justice not War has asked for the observance of a minute's silence tod...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
We have no wish to diminish the feelings of people on the subject, Mr Sheridan, but there is a public demonstration throughout Edinburgh and I suggest that t...
The Minister for Social Justice (Ms Margaret Curran):
Lab
This is an historic moment for the Parliament—although I think that I have said that in most of the debates in which I have spoken, which have been historic ...
Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con):
Con
I am delighted to be speaking to Margaret Curran in this, the last meeting of the Parliament in this session. Does she think that the Chancellor of the Exche...
Ms Curran:
Lab
That question gives me a pleasurable opportunity to say that perhaps the best thing that has happened to this country in the past five years has been Gordon ...
Mrs Lyndsay McIntosh (Central Scotland) (Con):
Con
Oh, but I am.
Ms Curran:
Lab
Yes, she is. We have debated poverty on many occasions in the Parliament. Those debates have been robust, enjoyable and thorough, but they have often tended ...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
We have all received a briefing from Help the Aged this morning. Given the work that the Executive has done on fuel poverty, does the minister agree with Hel...
Ms Curran:
Lab
I have not seen the Help the Aged briefing and I am wise enough not to endorse figures that I have not seen. Let me make our position abundantly clear. We ha...
Mr Davidson:
Con
Transco is heavily involved in delivering, on behalf of the Executive, the central heating programme for pensioners and others. Representatives of Transco ha...
Ms Curran:
Lab
My God, it will be quite a debate if the Tories are going to start defending the unemployed. The Conservatives are experienced in issues relating to massive ...
Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
Will the minister give way?
Ms Curran:
Lab
I must press on, as I do not want to run out of time. We can pursue some of those issues later.Helping our older people to be more active is part of our stra...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab):
Lab
The minister mentioned stereotyping older people. Does she agree that the experience of older women can be very different from that of older men? Given their...
Ms Curran:
Lab
I thank Johann Lamont for introducing another theme that is dear to my heart. In the equality strategy, we have now recognised that age is itself a key deter...
Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
That was a nice, cheery speech from the Minister for Social Justice. She is obviously demob happy, and I do not intend to lower the tone too much in my speec...
Mr Davidson:
Con
Does Mr Gibson agree that it would be far better to raise the basic pension level, including the amount of money that people have to apply for through the bu...
Mr Gibson:
SNP
I believe that the basic pension should be raised. However, I am astonished that the Conservatives did not address that issue when they were in power. They d...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
You actually have about two minutes, Mr Gibson.
Mr Gibson:
SNP
In that case, I might mention it after all. Half of those in the over-65 age group live in households with no car, whereas the corresponding figure for all h...
Mr Keith Harding (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
At the outset, I should perhaps declare an interest as I fall into the category of older people and my opportunity gap may well deteriorate in the near futur...
Mr Gibson:
SNP
Does Mr Harding accept that the situation is actually worse than that? Once people go over the threshold, not only will they suffer a marginal tax rate of 40...
Mr Harding:
Con
I agree. I was just about to make that point, more or less. It is unfair that a pensioner on a modest but average income faces a marginal tax rate of 40 per ...
Ms Curran:
Lab
I am not sure whether either Mr Harding or I will be back in the next Parliament but I would not like to miss another opportunity to have a duel with him.
Mrs McIntosh:
Con
Yes—strip to the waist.
Ms Curran:
Lab
Let us not get carried away.I know that the Conservatives were committed to the right-to-buy policy but, as ever, their approach was half-baked. There are no...
Mr Harding:
Con
That is absolute rubbish. Whether people can afford repairs to and maintenance of their properties should be assessed by the mortgage lenders, which determin...