Chamber
Plenary, 27 Mar 2003
27 Mar 2003 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Closing the Opportunity Gap for Older People
I suppose I must declare an interest. When I was coming up the road, David Davidson told me that he supposed that I would be speaking today. I asked, "Why is that?" and he replied, "On grounds of antiquity."
No one has tried to define older people. It is funny—the young people in the gallery probably think that older people are 30. When someone is 30, they think that old is 45, and when they are my age, they might think 80. When I am 80—as I fully intend to be, God willing and weather permitting—I shall think that 95 is old.
Age is partly a state of mind, as other members have commented; I must admit that it is also a state of deteriorating body. That said, there are many older people who are far fitter, mentally and physically, than young people. Although there is a common condition among older people known as a senior moment—alternatively, a CRAFT moment, which I will explain later but cannot possibly say here—such fleeting seconds of forgetfulness are not the exclusive province of older people. I suppose that the only definition has to be chronological. I have been in denial on this for years, but my imminent departure has forced me to face up to it.
What is the opportunity gap? People are prevented from working beyond a certain age, and are not selected for jobs because they are too old. We should follow the example of the United States, where people work as long as they want to and as long as they are fit and well for the job. That is what Donald Gorrie said, and I agree. Older people who lose their jobs in their 50s or early 60s are not getting retrained quickly enough. For those who do not want to leave, or who are not at the end of their salary career, that is a demoralising experience.
I have looked at Age Concern Scotland's manifesto for the forthcoming election. It highlights a number of points that Age Concern feels to be worthy of consideration. Those include defects in service delivery in the national health service, in care services, in housing, in support from voluntary services, in consultation and in transport.
I will focus, however, on the need to ensure that enterprise and lifelong learning policies are fully inclusive of older people's needs. That means that vocational retraining must be readily accessible everywhere for everyone, where they need it. Non-vocational studies and courses must be available for people who no longer wish to continue to work. The two benefits of that are, first, that it enriches those people's lives—people's lives should be as rich as they can be for as long as possible.
No one has tried to define older people. It is funny—the young people in the gallery probably think that older people are 30. When someone is 30, they think that old is 45, and when they are my age, they might think 80. When I am 80—as I fully intend to be, God willing and weather permitting—I shall think that 95 is old.
Age is partly a state of mind, as other members have commented; I must admit that it is also a state of deteriorating body. That said, there are many older people who are far fitter, mentally and physically, than young people. Although there is a common condition among older people known as a senior moment—alternatively, a CRAFT moment, which I will explain later but cannot possibly say here—such fleeting seconds of forgetfulness are not the exclusive province of older people. I suppose that the only definition has to be chronological. I have been in denial on this for years, but my imminent departure has forced me to face up to it.
What is the opportunity gap? People are prevented from working beyond a certain age, and are not selected for jobs because they are too old. We should follow the example of the United States, where people work as long as they want to and as long as they are fit and well for the job. That is what Donald Gorrie said, and I agree. Older people who lose their jobs in their 50s or early 60s are not getting retrained quickly enough. For those who do not want to leave, or who are not at the end of their salary career, that is a demoralising experience.
I have looked at Age Concern Scotland's manifesto for the forthcoming election. It highlights a number of points that Age Concern feels to be worthy of consideration. Those include defects in service delivery in the national health service, in care services, in housing, in support from voluntary services, in consultation and in transport.
I will focus, however, on the need to ensure that enterprise and lifelong learning policies are fully inclusive of older people's needs. That means that vocational retraining must be readily accessible everywhere for everyone, where they need it. Non-vocational studies and courses must be available for people who no longer wish to continue to work. The two benefits of that are, first, that it enriches those people's lives—people's lives should be as rich as they can be for as long as possible.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
SNP
Good morning. The first item of business today is a debate on motion S1M-4064, in the name of Margaret Curran, on closing the opportunity gap for older peopl...
Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP):
SSP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer.
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
I will finish the introduction, Mr Sheridan, and then I will call you.Those members who wish to contribute to the debate should please press their request-to...
Tommy Sheridan:
SSP
I have already informed the Presiding Officer's office that the Scottish Coalition for Justice not War has asked for the observance of a minute's silence tod...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
We have no wish to diminish the feelings of people on the subject, Mr Sheridan, but there is a public demonstration throughout Edinburgh and I suggest that t...
The Minister for Social Justice (Ms Margaret Curran):
Lab
This is an historic moment for the Parliament—although I think that I have said that in most of the debates in which I have spoken, which have been historic ...
Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con):
Con
I am delighted to be speaking to Margaret Curran in this, the last meeting of the Parliament in this session. Does she think that the Chancellor of the Exche...
Ms Curran:
Lab
That question gives me a pleasurable opportunity to say that perhaps the best thing that has happened to this country in the past five years has been Gordon ...
Mrs Lyndsay McIntosh (Central Scotland) (Con):
Con
Oh, but I am.
Ms Curran:
Lab
Yes, she is. We have debated poverty on many occasions in the Parliament. Those debates have been robust, enjoyable and thorough, but they have often tended ...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
We have all received a briefing from Help the Aged this morning. Given the work that the Executive has done on fuel poverty, does the minister agree with Hel...
Ms Curran:
Lab
I have not seen the Help the Aged briefing and I am wise enough not to endorse figures that I have not seen. Let me make our position abundantly clear. We ha...
Mr Davidson:
Con
Transco is heavily involved in delivering, on behalf of the Executive, the central heating programme for pensioners and others. Representatives of Transco ha...
Ms Curran:
Lab
My God, it will be quite a debate if the Tories are going to start defending the unemployed. The Conservatives are experienced in issues relating to massive ...
Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
Will the minister give way?
Ms Curran:
Lab
I must press on, as I do not want to run out of time. We can pursue some of those issues later.Helping our older people to be more active is part of our stra...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab):
Lab
The minister mentioned stereotyping older people. Does she agree that the experience of older women can be very different from that of older men? Given their...
Ms Curran:
Lab
I thank Johann Lamont for introducing another theme that is dear to my heart. In the equality strategy, we have now recognised that age is itself a key deter...
Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
That was a nice, cheery speech from the Minister for Social Justice. She is obviously demob happy, and I do not intend to lower the tone too much in my speec...
Mr Davidson:
Con
Does Mr Gibson agree that it would be far better to raise the basic pension level, including the amount of money that people have to apply for through the bu...
Mr Gibson:
SNP
I believe that the basic pension should be raised. However, I am astonished that the Conservatives did not address that issue when they were in power. They d...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
You actually have about two minutes, Mr Gibson.
Mr Gibson:
SNP
In that case, I might mention it after all. Half of those in the over-65 age group live in households with no car, whereas the corresponding figure for all h...
Mr Keith Harding (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
At the outset, I should perhaps declare an interest as I fall into the category of older people and my opportunity gap may well deteriorate in the near futur...
Mr Gibson:
SNP
Does Mr Harding accept that the situation is actually worse than that? Once people go over the threshold, not only will they suffer a marginal tax rate of 40...
Mr Harding:
Con
I agree. I was just about to make that point, more or less. It is unfair that a pensioner on a modest but average income faces a marginal tax rate of 40 per ...
Ms Curran:
Lab
I am not sure whether either Mr Harding or I will be back in the next Parliament but I would not like to miss another opportunity to have a duel with him.
Mrs McIntosh:
Con
Yes—strip to the waist.
Ms Curran:
Lab
Let us not get carried away.I know that the Conservatives were committed to the right-to-buy policy but, as ever, their approach was half-baked. There are no...
Mr Harding:
Con
That is absolute rubbish. Whether people can afford repairs to and maintenance of their properties should be assessed by the mortgage lenders, which determin...