Chamber
Plenary, 27 Mar 2003
27 Mar 2003 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Closing the Opportunity Gap for Older People
In that case, I might mention it after all. Half of those in the over-65 age group live in households with no car, whereas the corresponding figure for all households is only a quarter. Thirteen per cent of over-65s said that they could not use public transport because of illness or disability. In 2000-01, less than 16 per cent of Scotland's bus fleet had a low floor and only 12 per cent had any kind of disabled access. Half of the pedestrians who were killed on UK roads were over retirement age.
The Executive has introduced free local off-peak bus travel for older people, but there should be a coherent national concessionary fares scheme, as exists in Wales, so that older people are entitled to the same level of free travel no matter where they live or where they are travelling to. That would reduce confusion about concessions, which can catch older people short. In addition, reregulation of the bus service would help elderly people, particularly those in outlying communities.
We are all aware that age discrimination in employment can start at the age of 40. I am marginally over that age, although I will probably be the youngest member to speak in the debate.
My final point relates to our raison d'être. From a nationalist perspective, we find shocking the level of poverty in this country. If we look at the standard of living of pensioners in most other European countries of comparable size, it is clear that they get a better deal. That shows that nations can look after their own people if they have control over their own economies, benefits and taxation systems. Those nations are clearly the most prosperous and pensioners in Luxembourg, Sweden and Austria are all certainly better off than those in Scotland. The answer for Scotland's pensioners, as for Scotland's young people and the middle-aged, is independence.
I move amendment S1M-4064.2, to leave out from "welcomes" to end and insert:
"notes that life expectancy in Scotland is among the lowest in the developed world; further notes that Scottish Executive health targets entrench age inequalities; accepts that ageism is a reality in modern Scotland and must be countered; is aware that 25% of Scottish pensioners live in poverty; acknowledges that more coherence to the concessionary fare scheme is required; seeks more flexibility in delivering the central heating programme; desires that the postcode lottery of free personal care places be ended; recognises that older people have a vital part to play in our democracy; is concerned at continuing reductions in the value of the state pension in real and relative terms; demands that the closure of final salary scheme pensions be addressed to prevent future generations of older people being left with low incomes, financial insecurity and dependent on means-tested benefits, and believes that to address the needs of older people in Scotland the Parliament needs the full powers of an independent sovereign state."
The Executive has introduced free local off-peak bus travel for older people, but there should be a coherent national concessionary fares scheme, as exists in Wales, so that older people are entitled to the same level of free travel no matter where they live or where they are travelling to. That would reduce confusion about concessions, which can catch older people short. In addition, reregulation of the bus service would help elderly people, particularly those in outlying communities.
We are all aware that age discrimination in employment can start at the age of 40. I am marginally over that age, although I will probably be the youngest member to speak in the debate.
My final point relates to our raison d'être. From a nationalist perspective, we find shocking the level of poverty in this country. If we look at the standard of living of pensioners in most other European countries of comparable size, it is clear that they get a better deal. That shows that nations can look after their own people if they have control over their own economies, benefits and taxation systems. Those nations are clearly the most prosperous and pensioners in Luxembourg, Sweden and Austria are all certainly better off than those in Scotland. The answer for Scotland's pensioners, as for Scotland's young people and the middle-aged, is independence.
I move amendment S1M-4064.2, to leave out from "welcomes" to end and insert:
"notes that life expectancy in Scotland is among the lowest in the developed world; further notes that Scottish Executive health targets entrench age inequalities; accepts that ageism is a reality in modern Scotland and must be countered; is aware that 25% of Scottish pensioners live in poverty; acknowledges that more coherence to the concessionary fare scheme is required; seeks more flexibility in delivering the central heating programme; desires that the postcode lottery of free personal care places be ended; recognises that older people have a vital part to play in our democracy; is concerned at continuing reductions in the value of the state pension in real and relative terms; demands that the closure of final salary scheme pensions be addressed to prevent future generations of older people being left with low incomes, financial insecurity and dependent on means-tested benefits, and believes that to address the needs of older people in Scotland the Parliament needs the full powers of an independent sovereign state."
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
SNP
Good morning. The first item of business today is a debate on motion S1M-4064, in the name of Margaret Curran, on closing the opportunity gap for older peopl...
Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP):
SSP
On a point of order, Presiding Officer.
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
I will finish the introduction, Mr Sheridan, and then I will call you.Those members who wish to contribute to the debate should please press their request-to...
Tommy Sheridan:
SSP
I have already informed the Presiding Officer's office that the Scottish Coalition for Justice not War has asked for the observance of a minute's silence tod...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
We have no wish to diminish the feelings of people on the subject, Mr Sheridan, but there is a public demonstration throughout Edinburgh and I suggest that t...
The Minister for Social Justice (Ms Margaret Curran):
Lab
This is an historic moment for the Parliament—although I think that I have said that in most of the debates in which I have spoken, which have been historic ...
Mr David Davidson (North-East Scotland) (Con):
Con
I am delighted to be speaking to Margaret Curran in this, the last meeting of the Parliament in this session. Does she think that the Chancellor of the Exche...
Ms Curran:
Lab
That question gives me a pleasurable opportunity to say that perhaps the best thing that has happened to this country in the past five years has been Gordon ...
Mrs Lyndsay McIntosh (Central Scotland) (Con):
Con
Oh, but I am.
Ms Curran:
Lab
Yes, she is. We have debated poverty on many occasions in the Parliament. Those debates have been robust, enjoyable and thorough, but they have often tended ...
Mary Scanlon (Highlands and Islands) (Con):
Con
We have all received a briefing from Help the Aged this morning. Given the work that the Executive has done on fuel poverty, does the minister agree with Hel...
Ms Curran:
Lab
I have not seen the Help the Aged briefing and I am wise enough not to endorse figures that I have not seen. Let me make our position abundantly clear. We ha...
Mr Davidson:
Con
Transco is heavily involved in delivering, on behalf of the Executive, the central heating programme for pensioners and others. Representatives of Transco ha...
Ms Curran:
Lab
My God, it will be quite a debate if the Tories are going to start defending the unemployed. The Conservatives are experienced in issues relating to massive ...
Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
Will the minister give way?
Ms Curran:
Lab
I must press on, as I do not want to run out of time. We can pursue some of those issues later.Helping our older people to be more active is part of our stra...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab):
Lab
The minister mentioned stereotyping older people. Does she agree that the experience of older women can be very different from that of older men? Given their...
Ms Curran:
Lab
I thank Johann Lamont for introducing another theme that is dear to my heart. In the equality strategy, we have now recognised that age is itself a key deter...
Mr Kenneth Gibson (Glasgow) (SNP):
SNP
That was a nice, cheery speech from the Minister for Social Justice. She is obviously demob happy, and I do not intend to lower the tone too much in my speec...
Mr Davidson:
Con
Does Mr Gibson agree that it would be far better to raise the basic pension level, including the amount of money that people have to apply for through the bu...
Mr Gibson:
SNP
I believe that the basic pension should be raised. However, I am astonished that the Conservatives did not address that issue when they were in power. They d...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
You actually have about two minutes, Mr Gibson.
Mr Gibson:
SNP
In that case, I might mention it after all. Half of those in the over-65 age group live in households with no car, whereas the corresponding figure for all h...
Mr Keith Harding (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
At the outset, I should perhaps declare an interest as I fall into the category of older people and my opportunity gap may well deteriorate in the near futur...
Mr Gibson:
SNP
Does Mr Harding accept that the situation is actually worse than that? Once people go over the threshold, not only will they suffer a marginal tax rate of 40...
Mr Harding:
Con
I agree. I was just about to make that point, more or less. It is unfair that a pensioner on a modest but average income faces a marginal tax rate of 40 per ...
Ms Curran:
Lab
I am not sure whether either Mr Harding or I will be back in the next Parliament but I would not like to miss another opportunity to have a duel with him.
Mrs McIntosh:
Con
Yes—strip to the waist.
Ms Curran:
Lab
Let us not get carried away.I know that the Conservatives were committed to the right-to-buy policy but, as ever, their approach was half-baked. There are no...
Mr Harding:
Con
That is absolute rubbish. Whether people can afford repairs to and maintenance of their properties should be assessed by the mortgage lenders, which determin...