Chamber
Plenary, 19 Mar 2003
19 Mar 2003 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Charity Law Reform
I am obliged to Linda Fabiani for that corroboration of my point.
I wanted to make a point about the way in which people come to be involved in charities and the importance of making sure that we do what we can to reduce the legislative burden—an important point was made earlier about the need not only for a legislative framework, but for simplification. People who become involved in charities come from all sorts of backgrounds and have all sorts of motivations. My involvement stems from the fact that I was asked to become involved in the Head Injuries Trust for Scotland, partly because it was felt that lawyers instinctively know lots about charity law. What frightened me was the tremendous responsibility that can fall on trustees and directors of charitable companies, as Robin Harper said. The responsibility for carrying a substantial enterprise on which a number of employees, exercises and endeavours depend—and the knowledge that that is being done on the side, as it were—falls not only on lawyers, but on many people across Scotland who give their time to try to create better circumstances.
Partly because of some of the funding issues that Donald Gorrie mentioned, the charity that I was involved with ended up having to shut its doors. Another reason for that was the burden on the trustees and charity workers whereby, at times, we felt that we were navigating the legal arrangements for the charity rather than trying to find a funding solution. Anything that can be done to assist and enable charities is to be welcomed.
I sympathise with Robin Harper's position, but I am not sure that it is appropriate to say that giving advice and guidance to trustees is a bit of a waste of time. The problem that he outlines about the liability of trustees in relation to the letting of a hall is precisely the kind of situation in which straightforward advice would be helpful. On reflection, he might recognise that point.
I would like an overhaul of charity legislation. Many good things happened in the 17th century, but we need to move on.
I wanted to make a point about the way in which people come to be involved in charities and the importance of making sure that we do what we can to reduce the legislative burden—an important point was made earlier about the need not only for a legislative framework, but for simplification. People who become involved in charities come from all sorts of backgrounds and have all sorts of motivations. My involvement stems from the fact that I was asked to become involved in the Head Injuries Trust for Scotland, partly because it was felt that lawyers instinctively know lots about charity law. What frightened me was the tremendous responsibility that can fall on trustees and directors of charitable companies, as Robin Harper said. The responsibility for carrying a substantial enterprise on which a number of employees, exercises and endeavours depend—and the knowledge that that is being done on the side, as it were—falls not only on lawyers, but on many people across Scotland who give their time to try to create better circumstances.
Partly because of some of the funding issues that Donald Gorrie mentioned, the charity that I was involved with ended up having to shut its doors. Another reason for that was the burden on the trustees and charity workers whereby, at times, we felt that we were navigating the legal arrangements for the charity rather than trying to find a funding solution. Anything that can be done to assist and enable charities is to be welcomed.
I sympathise with Robin Harper's position, but I am not sure that it is appropriate to say that giving advice and guidance to trustees is a bit of a waste of time. The problem that he outlines about the liability of trustees in relation to the letting of a hall is precisely the kind of situation in which straightforward advice would be helpful. On reflection, he might recognise that point.
I would like an overhaul of charity legislation. Many good things happened in the 17th century, but we need to move on.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
SNP
The final item of business today is a members' business debate on motion S1M-3961, in the name of Jackie Baillie, on reform of charity law.
Motion debated,
That the Parliament shares the Scottish Executive's commitment to progressing the reform of charity law; recognises that this will assist in developing the c...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab):
Lab
As members know all too well, charities form a vital part of Scottish life. Their unique qualities mean that they are especially well equipped to provide to ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
Because the stage 3 debate on the Mental Health (Care and Treatment) (Scotland) Bill runs on tomorrow, the clock runs on as well. I will advise members when ...
Tricia Marwick (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
I apologise for having to rush off before the debate ends.It will not have escaped Jackie Baillie's notice that I have not signed the motion that we are deba...
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con):
Con
I declare an interest, as I am the trustee of a small charitable trust. I am also active in some other charities, including the Edinburgh support group of Ho...
The Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport (Mike Watson):
Lab
Yes, why not? I was just responding to Lord James Douglas-Hamilton's comments on the act the name of which I will not repeat: it seemed to me to be the mothe...
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton:
Con
I thank Mike Watson for his contribution.We need easily accessible information to help to protect against bogus charities and to make it easy for members of ...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
I congratulate Jackie Baillie on getting the debate. Her personal commitment, as a minister and as a back bencher, to charities is certainly well known. She ...
Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green):
Green
I congratulate Jackie Baillie on initiating the debate and on the motion, which I signed. I agree with Tricia Marwick that four years is a long time for 50,0...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab):
Lab
I congratulate Jackie Baillie on bringing the debate to the Parliament. I had been looking forward to it, but then we heard from Tricia Marwick and Donald Go...
Fiona Hyslop (Lothians) (SNP):
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Johann Lamont:
Lab
If the member lets me finish my point.In its deliberations on the voluntary sector, the Social Justice Committee said that there had to be progress on charit...
Linda Fabiani (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Like my colleague Tricia Marwick, I did not sign up to Jackie Baillie's motion. That was not because I did not want it to be discussed—I want it to be discus...
Brian Fitzpatrick (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (Lab):
Lab
I speak with some trepidation, given the substantial experience of many of the members who have spoken in the debate and their contributions to the work of c...
Linda Fabiani:
SNP
Will the member give way?
Brian Fitzpatrick:
Lab
On gracelessness? Certainly.
Linda Fabiani:
SNP
That is the kind of attitude that I have problems with—the attitude that, as the debate is about the voluntary sector and charity law, it is not about politi...
Brian Fitzpatrick:
Lab
I am obliged to Linda Fabiani for that corroboration of my point.I wanted to make a point about the way in which people come to be involved in charities and ...
Jackie Baillie:
Lab
Name one.
Brian Fitzpatrick:
Lab
I was thinking of 1603, actually.The opportunity to conduct that overhaul will be available to us in the next session of Parliament. It can be done through a...
The Deputy Minister for Justice (Hugh Henry):
Lab
Jackie Baillie has done us a favour in giving us an opportunity to focus yet again on the critical role that charities and voluntary organisations play in th...
Fiona Hyslop:
SNP
The Minister for Social Justice and I were both members of the Social Justice Committee before Johann Lamont became a member of the committee. At that time, ...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
I was about to say that, as far as using the same definition or a different one is concerned, we have ruled nothing out. However, we should bear it in mind t...
Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab):
Lab
As Johann Lamont pointed out, the voluntary sector does not just include organisations that are involved in social justice; it covers sport, the environment,...
Hugh Henry:
Lab
I agree entirely with that comment.I want to return to points that members made about the need for legislation and about putting the regulator on to a statut...
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton:
Con
Is the subject suitable for a committee investigation, or even a committee bill, given that such bills have been one of the Parliament's triumphs?
Hugh Henry:
Lab
That is entirely a matter for the new committees of the next Parliament. Over the first four years of the Parliament, the committees have demonstrated their ...
Meeting closed at 17:46.