Chamber
Plenary, 13 Mar 2003
13 Mar 2003 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
International Situation
The Conservatives' position on Iraq has always been that we should act in Britain's interest. If we cannot secure a United Nations resolution, we must decide whether acting in Britain's interest is enough. The Liberal Democrats say that the UN is the only way, but under the leadership of Paddy Ashdown, the Liberal Democrats went outside the UN to deal with Serbia and Bosnia. How quickly they have forgotten that. The reality is that we are seeing yet another two-faced position from the two-faced party.
Is Saddam Hussein complying with UN resolution 1441? He is now destroying the missiles that he said he never had, and he is about to destroy the unmanned drones that he said he never had. The destruction of missiles does not happen day by day, as it is happening in Iraq, drawn out on television, bit by bit, to divide countries' opinion on getting rid of Saddam Hussein and his regime. The destruction of missiles involves digging a hole, putting the missiles in it and blowing them up. Saddam Hussein is doing that only because of the threat of force and he is doing it day by day. It is no coincidence that he produced the missing part of the report that he should have produced back in 1991 the day after Hans Blix reported to the United Nations. We should be careful in deciding who is being used and who is not.
The Conservatives believe in protecting Britain's interest and we support the Prime Minister, although he is a Labour Prime Minister. He has bent over backwards to try to get consensus on this issue. He has done his best and has even acted against the wishes of a large majority of the Labour party who probably never wanted him as their leader. Take it from me: if the Labour party gets rid of Tony Blair—as many members of the Labour movement are now saying that it should—it will make our day. We will be back in power even quicker than we had planned.
Is Saddam Hussein complying with UN resolution 1441? He is now destroying the missiles that he said he never had, and he is about to destroy the unmanned drones that he said he never had. The destruction of missiles does not happen day by day, as it is happening in Iraq, drawn out on television, bit by bit, to divide countries' opinion on getting rid of Saddam Hussein and his regime. The destruction of missiles involves digging a hole, putting the missiles in it and blowing them up. Saddam Hussein is doing that only because of the threat of force and he is doing it day by day. It is no coincidence that he produced the missing part of the report that he should have produced back in 1991 the day after Hans Blix reported to the United Nations. We should be careful in deciding who is being used and who is not.
The Conservatives believe in protecting Britain's interest and we support the Prime Minister, although he is a Labour Prime Minister. He has bent over backwards to try to get consensus on this issue. He has done his best and has even acted against the wishes of a large majority of the Labour party who probably never wanted him as their leader. Take it from me: if the Labour party gets rid of Tony Blair—as many members of the Labour movement are now saying that it should—it will make our day. We will be back in power even quicker than we had planned.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel):
NPA
Good morning. Our first item of business is a debate on motion S1M-4012, in the name of John Swinney, on the current international situation.I must tell the ...
Mr John Swinney (North Tayside) (SNP):
SNP
Two months ago, the Scottish National Party led a debate in this, our national Parliament. That day we set out our "deep and serious concern" that the United...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow Pollok) (Lab):
Lab
Does Mr Swinney accept that there are serious people on both sides of the argument and that people in Scotland do not speak with a unanimous voice on the iss...
Mr Swinney:
SNP
I could not agree more with Johann Lamont. That is why we are having a three-hour debate in my party's parliamentary time, which will give those of every sha...
Bristow Muldoon (Livingston) (Lab):
Lab
On the basis of Mr Swinney's argument today, does he maintain that the SNP was right to oppose the ending of ethnic cleansing in Kosovo in 1999?
Mr Swinney:
SNP
In the interests of having a quality public debate about a war that the people of this country will face in the ensuing few days, we should concentrate on th...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I am obliged to Mr Swinney for giving way. He rightly puts much emphasis on international law. However, does he accept that for every statement on internatio...
Mr Swinney:
SNP
If Murdo Fraser will bear with me, I will address that point directly.The United Nations Security Council resolution 1441, which was adopted on 8 November, i...
Members:
Hear, hear.
Mr Swinney:
SNP
I am glad to hear that the Liberal Democrats agree with that point. Nowhere in resolution 1441 is there a specific authorisation of force. The resolution cal...
The First Minister (Mr Jack McConnell):
Lab
Will Mr Swinney acknowledge that Mr Robert Black has been seriously wrong in the past on issues of concern to this country, including the Lockerbie disaster,...
Mr Swinney:
SNP
His running down of distinguished Scottish academics is not exactly a tribute to the First Minister's stance.
The First Minister:
Lab
It was wrong to run down Scots law when that law worked in the international interest and in the court in the Netherlands. Mr Black was wrong then and could ...
Mr Swinney:
SNP
If that is what the First Minister is reduced to, it says everything about what he has to contribute to the debate.Professor Black has further argued that th...
Johann Lamont:
Lab
Does the member therefore agree that the concept of an unreasonable veto exists and does he accept that those of us who are concerned about the Palestinian p...
Mr Swinney:
SNP
I ask Johann Lamont merely to go and explain that to the Palestinian people, whose aspirations have been thwarted by the vetoes that I mentioned.Mr Blair sho...
Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD):
LD
Does Mr Swinney agree that the inspections are achieving containment and that Iraq is currently no threat to us or to its neighbours?
Mr Swinney:
SNP
That is a fair point.
Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
Does the member believe that Iraq would have made the recent concessions if there had not been the pressure of having troops on its borders?
Mr Swinney:
SNP
The concessions have been brought about by the pressure of the international community to ensure that Iraq complies with resolutions that have been passed by...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
I thank Mr Swinney for taking less than the allotted time, despite taking interventions.
Mr Jack McConnell (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab):
Lab
In October 1977, I went on my first demonstration. We were protesting against apartheid and demanding the end of an evil regime. Britain was on the right sid...
Tommy Sheridan (Glasgow) (SSP):
SSP
I am glad that the minister protested against apartheid in 1977. Whose side is he on now, however? Is he on the side of Nelson Mandela, who is against this w...
Mr McConnell:
Lab
I am on the side of the people of Iraq. I remind Mr Sheridan that, for decades—well over a century—socialists have supported those who are being persecuted a...
Mr Swinney:
SNP
I hear what the First Minister says about the UK Government's attitude to a second resolution in the UN. Will the First Minister support military action if t...
Mr McConnell:
Lab
I have three things to say in answer to that question. First, it would be wrong, in this country and elsewhere, to comment on hypothetical situations when th...
Andrew Wilson (Central Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Nonsense.
Mr McConnell:
Lab
That day, Andrew Wilson said that Alex Salmond was right to describe that action as "unpardonable folly". However, he was not right; he was wrong. That examp...
Mr Swinney:
SNP
The First Minister said that he would not comment on hypothetical situations, but then went on to comment on actions that the French Government might take. T...
Mr McConnell:
Lab
I will address that point. The amendment that I will move makes the point that action should be authorised by the United Nations.Difficult decisions must be ...