Chamber
Plenary, 06 Mar 2003
06 Mar 2003 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I congratulate Mike Russell on bringing the bill before the Parliament and giving us the opportunity to debate the ways in which we might reverse the alarming decline in Gaelic speaking in Scotland. It is a great pity that my colleague Baroness Ray Michie was not elected to the Parliament and has not had the opportunity to contribute to the debate. She is passionate about the Gaelic language and its future and she would have been one of the key signatories to the bill, supporting Mike Russell all the way. It is, therefore, regrettable that she is not here to take part in this debate.
I believe that my constituency of Argyll and Bute has the second-largest number of Gaelic speakers of all parliamentary constituencies. I might be corrected on that, but a large number of Gaelic speakers live on the islands and on the mainland within my constituency. I am not a Gaelic speaker. Indeed, I occasionally struggle with the English language, never mind a second language. However, I strongly support the Gaelic language and I believe that we must take all possible steps to secure its future and to turn around the decline in Gaelic speaking throughout Scotland.
I regularly visit schools throughout my constituency and Gaelic is taught in many of them. I see at first hand the benefits for children who are being educated in both English and Gaelic. Teachers and parents tell me that learning in both languages stands their children in good stead for the future and improves their ability to learn other languages. Dr Ewing made that point and she said, rightly, that learning in Gaelic helps children to think more diversely. There is proof that learning in Gaelic is good for children. Parents and teachers tell me that religiously when I visit schools to listen to Gaelic classes.
I do not need to be persuaded that the bill is needed and that it can bring benefits. However, I welcome Mike Russell's acknowledgement in his opening statement that achieving secure status alone will not be enough to save the Gaelic language. I accept his argument that securing the language's status will help to underpin the language's future in Scotland. However, there are fundamental concerns about how the bill's objectives can be delivered on the ground.
In my constituency, the fundamental barrier to the stabilisation and resuscitation of the language is the shortage of Gaelic teachers. That continuing concern is relayed to me as I go round the schools. In every school that I visit the teachers and education officials say that there is an unmet need in their area and that if they had more Gaelic teachers they could educate more children in Gaelic.
The bill, of course, does not address that fundamental concern. However, I suggest that the issue of the shortage of Gaelic teachers must be addressed. If it is not, the bill's objectives will not be achieved. I would appreciate it if Mike Russell would address that fundamental point in his winding-up speech. It seems to me that the bill and the shortage of teachers must be addressed simultaneously. If we pass the bill, we must have sufficient Gaelic teachers to deliver the language to the widest number of children.
I have two other concerns, which are both about local authorities. Do local authorities and other public bodies have the resources, in terms of the numbers of Gaelic speakers that they employ, to meet the bill's requirements? Argyll and Bute Council has genuine concerns about its ability to do so. What would the penalties be if a council, for whatever reason, could not fulfil the proposed act's objectives, not from a reluctance to do so but because, for example, of a lack of Gaelic teachers or Gaelic-speaking employees? I would appreciate an explanation of how such a situation would be addressed.
I also have concerns about the ghettoising of the Gaelic language into the small geographical area that the bill outlines. I listened to Mike Russell's reasons for going down that route. Nevertheless, if we are to stem the decline of the Gaelic language, surely it must be encouraged throughout Scotland. We must address that head on because we cannot duck it. I ask Mike Russell to explain in more detail why he took the approach of encouraging the language only in a narrow geographical area rather than adopt the Welsh approach. I understand that, in a significantly large area of Wales, Welsh was not previously spoken.
I will support the bill's principles and I believe that Parliament must do so also, otherwise Parliament will send out a signal to Scotland that it is not serious about saving the Gaelic language.
I believe that my constituency of Argyll and Bute has the second-largest number of Gaelic speakers of all parliamentary constituencies. I might be corrected on that, but a large number of Gaelic speakers live on the islands and on the mainland within my constituency. I am not a Gaelic speaker. Indeed, I occasionally struggle with the English language, never mind a second language. However, I strongly support the Gaelic language and I believe that we must take all possible steps to secure its future and to turn around the decline in Gaelic speaking throughout Scotland.
I regularly visit schools throughout my constituency and Gaelic is taught in many of them. I see at first hand the benefits for children who are being educated in both English and Gaelic. Teachers and parents tell me that learning in both languages stands their children in good stead for the future and improves their ability to learn other languages. Dr Ewing made that point and she said, rightly, that learning in Gaelic helps children to think more diversely. There is proof that learning in Gaelic is good for children. Parents and teachers tell me that religiously when I visit schools to listen to Gaelic classes.
I do not need to be persuaded that the bill is needed and that it can bring benefits. However, I welcome Mike Russell's acknowledgement in his opening statement that achieving secure status alone will not be enough to save the Gaelic language. I accept his argument that securing the language's status will help to underpin the language's future in Scotland. However, there are fundamental concerns about how the bill's objectives can be delivered on the ground.
In my constituency, the fundamental barrier to the stabilisation and resuscitation of the language is the shortage of Gaelic teachers. That continuing concern is relayed to me as I go round the schools. In every school that I visit the teachers and education officials say that there is an unmet need in their area and that if they had more Gaelic teachers they could educate more children in Gaelic.
The bill, of course, does not address that fundamental concern. However, I suggest that the issue of the shortage of Gaelic teachers must be addressed. If it is not, the bill's objectives will not be achieved. I would appreciate it if Mike Russell would address that fundamental point in his winding-up speech. It seems to me that the bill and the shortage of teachers must be addressed simultaneously. If we pass the bill, we must have sufficient Gaelic teachers to deliver the language to the widest number of children.
I have two other concerns, which are both about local authorities. Do local authorities and other public bodies have the resources, in terms of the numbers of Gaelic speakers that they employ, to meet the bill's requirements? Argyll and Bute Council has genuine concerns about its ability to do so. What would the penalties be if a council, for whatever reason, could not fulfil the proposed act's objectives, not from a reluctance to do so but because, for example, of a lack of Gaelic teachers or Gaelic-speaking employees? I would appreciate an explanation of how such a situation would be addressed.
I also have concerns about the ghettoising of the Gaelic language into the small geographical area that the bill outlines. I listened to Mike Russell's reasons for going down that route. Nevertheless, if we are to stem the decline of the Gaelic language, surely it must be encouraged throughout Scotland. We must address that head on because we cannot duck it. I ask Mike Russell to explain in more detail why he took the approach of encouraging the language only in a narrow geographical area rather than adopt the Welsh approach. I understand that, in a significantly large area of Wales, Welsh was not previously spoken.
I will support the bill's principles and I believe that Parliament must do so also, otherwise Parliament will send out a signal to Scotland that it is not serious about saving the Gaelic language.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
SNP
A-nis, tha sinn a' gluasad gu deasbad na Gàidhlig.
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
SNP
We now move to the debate on Gaelic.
The member continued in English.
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S1M-3618, in the name of Michael Russell, on the general principles of the Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill. I...
The member continued in Gaelic.
SNP
Tha mi a' gairm Mhìcheil Ruiseal gus an deasbad fhosgladh.
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
SNP
I call Michael Russell to open the debate.
Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Tha an deasbad seo an-diugh a' comharrachadh na darna oidhirp reachdail gus Beurla agus Gàidhlig a chur air stèidh cho-ionann ann an sùilean lagha na h-Alba....
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
SNP
Today's debate marks the second attempt to put the English and Gaelic languages on an equal footing in the eyes of the law of Scotland. The late Donald Stewa...
The member continued in English.
SNP
There are more than 6,000 languages in the world and perhaps as many as 90 per cent of those languages are at risk. Somewhere in the world a language dies ev...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):
Lab
I acknowledge the member's commitment—which he has shown from the beginning of this Parliament—to the protection of the Gaelic language.I represent a constit...
Michael Russell:
SNP
I think that it will assist them. I accept the point that Pauline McNeill makes and I will say something specifically about Glasgow later in my speech.The Ex...
The member continued in Gaelic.
SNP
Agus, anns a' Ghàidhlig,Gu bheil a' Phàrlamaid a' toirt taic do phrionnsabalan coitcheann Bile Cànan na Gàidhlig (Alba).
The Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport (Mike Watson):
Lab
I want to thank the Education, Culture and Sport Committee for the time that it has set aside to consider in depth the issues that have been raised by Michae...
Michael Russell:
SNP
I am happy to provide the letter for the Parliament's consideration. I should point out that it does not say what Mike Watson suggested. Rather, it makes thr...
Mike Watson:
Lab
Surely that was one of the longest interventions in this session of the Parliament.
Michael Russell:
SNP
I was correcting an error.
Mike Watson:
Lab
I have the member's letter here, but I do not propose to quote from it.It is incumbent on any member who is introducing a bill to provide information on the ...
Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
Has Bòrd Gàidhlig na h-Alba now met and has it reached a view on whether it is in favour of the bill?
Mike Watson:
Lab
As is well and publicly recorded, Bòrd Gàidhlig na h-Alba considered the bill and is generally supportive of it, but believes that the bill should be amended...
Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
It is with pleasure that I speak in support of Michael Russell's Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill.The Gaelic language is in an extremely precarious position. ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
Order. I say gently that we do not allow applause from the public gallery, because we might also have abuse or be shouted at from there, as happened the othe...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I welcome the bill and congratulate Michael Russell on introducing it. I am aware of the hard work that he put into it over a long time. I hope that he will ...
John Farquhar Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD):
LD
Tha mi a' cur fàilte air a h-uile duine dhan deasbad shònraichte seo mu dheidhinn Gàidhlig. Cha leig mi leis innse do dhuine sam bith an seo, gu bheil àite g...
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
LD
I welcome everybody to this special debate on Gaelic. I do not have to tell anyone here that Gaelic has a special place in the heart and soul of a proud nati...
Mr Alasdair Morrison (Western Isles) (Lab):
Lab
Anns na ceithir bliadhnaichean a chaidh seachad, tha sinn air adhartas fhaicinn ann an iomadach roinn co-cheangailte ris a' Ghàidhlig. Chaidh rudan a dhèanam...
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
Lab
In the past four years, we have taken a number of important steps in many relevant areas to advance the cause of the Gaelic language. We should be mindful no...
Dr Winnie Ewing (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
Tha mi uabhasach toilichte a bhith ann am Pàrlamaid na h-Alba a-rithist, agus tha mi uabhasach toilichte cuideachd gu bheil deasbad againn an-diugh. Tha mi d...
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
SNP
I am happy to be in the Scottish Parliament again and I am pleased that we are having the debate. I am sorry that I am not fluent in Gaelic yet, but I promis...
The member continued in English.
SNP
We were told by our grandparents that Gaelic would hold us back but, as I have just said, that is nonsense. It is proven to everyone's satisfaction that if s...
George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD):
LD
I congratulate Mike Russell on bringing the bill before the Parliament and giving us the opportunity to debate the ways in which we might reverse the alarmin...
Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
I support the principles of the Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill, which Mike Russell promoted and which is being debated. I know that he has put much effort i...