Chamber
Plenary, 06 Mar 2003
06 Mar 2003 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
We were told by our grandparents that Gaelic would hold us back but, as I have just said, that is nonsense. It is proven to everyone's satisfaction that if someone speaks two languages they can think in two different ways, which makes their thought processes more subtle. They can also much more readily learn other languages. That was not believed when children went to school with no English and left school with no Gaelic, when the language was persecuted and all the discrimination that John Farquhar Munro mentioned took place.
My own story about Gaelic—apart from that of my Gaelic granny who did not want to pass the language on—concerns my wish to join the Gaelic choir at Queen's Park school. I was quite a good singer, but I was turned down because I did not have the Gaelic. If I had been allowed to join that choir in my youth, my Gaelic would be much more fluent than it is now. The headmaster of the school was the then president of An Comunn Gaidhealach, so that did not say much for that organisation's attitude, which was exclusive rather than inclusive. My lure to Gaelic has, therefore, been music. The music is magnificent, and I have listened to it for many weeks of many Mòds.
Nevertheless, Gaelic is a language of enormous literature and poetry. When I was a member of the European Parliament, I was, for some years, the chair of the European Bureau for Lesser Used Languages. I visited many places where there is a declining language, such as Sard, in Sardinia. Breton, on the other hand, seems to have mastered the decline that was happening in Brittany. John Hume and I lodged a budget line for lesser-used languages. There is great European sympathy for the situation. I do not think that the Urdu question is really relevant, as Urdu is not in danger of extinction. Even if no Urdu speaker were left in Scotland, Urdu would still be Urdu in all its literature. The position is not the same. However, within these islands we have seen Cornish and Manx go.
For many years of my parliamentary career in Europe, I sat with the members of Fianna Fáil, who all had quite a bit of Irish. John Farquhar Munro mentioned compulsion. The Fianna Fáil members had been forced to learn Irish to higher level to get into university. They were all forced to go to an Irish language summer school, although I think that they would have had a rattling good time there. That was the tradition. There was quite a lot of compulsion, although the requirement to learn Irish to get into a university has now been removed. The Fianna Fáil members were not natural Gaelic speakers, and there was resentment among some of them about the compulsion, so I am not in favour of compulsion. I am with John Farquhar Munro on that.
"A Fresh Start for Gaelic" discusses secure status. It says:
"There is a very strong feeling within the Gaelic community that at best the timetable"
that was set out for Gaelic in the promises of the Government's manifesto
"has been extended, or at worst that all parties have reneged on their commitment".
I do not see any argument against granting Gaelic secure status. It is a step forward. The financial difficulties can surely be resolved. Gaelic is worth a blank cheque.
My own story about Gaelic—apart from that of my Gaelic granny who did not want to pass the language on—concerns my wish to join the Gaelic choir at Queen's Park school. I was quite a good singer, but I was turned down because I did not have the Gaelic. If I had been allowed to join that choir in my youth, my Gaelic would be much more fluent than it is now. The headmaster of the school was the then president of An Comunn Gaidhealach, so that did not say much for that organisation's attitude, which was exclusive rather than inclusive. My lure to Gaelic has, therefore, been music. The music is magnificent, and I have listened to it for many weeks of many Mòds.
Nevertheless, Gaelic is a language of enormous literature and poetry. When I was a member of the European Parliament, I was, for some years, the chair of the European Bureau for Lesser Used Languages. I visited many places where there is a declining language, such as Sard, in Sardinia. Breton, on the other hand, seems to have mastered the decline that was happening in Brittany. John Hume and I lodged a budget line for lesser-used languages. There is great European sympathy for the situation. I do not think that the Urdu question is really relevant, as Urdu is not in danger of extinction. Even if no Urdu speaker were left in Scotland, Urdu would still be Urdu in all its literature. The position is not the same. However, within these islands we have seen Cornish and Manx go.
For many years of my parliamentary career in Europe, I sat with the members of Fianna Fáil, who all had quite a bit of Irish. John Farquhar Munro mentioned compulsion. The Fianna Fáil members had been forced to learn Irish to higher level to get into university. They were all forced to go to an Irish language summer school, although I think that they would have had a rattling good time there. That was the tradition. There was quite a lot of compulsion, although the requirement to learn Irish to get into a university has now been removed. The Fianna Fáil members were not natural Gaelic speakers, and there was resentment among some of them about the compulsion, so I am not in favour of compulsion. I am with John Farquhar Munro on that.
"A Fresh Start for Gaelic" discusses secure status. It says:
"There is a very strong feeling within the Gaelic community that at best the timetable"
that was set out for Gaelic in the promises of the Government's manifesto
"has been extended, or at worst that all parties have reneged on their commitment".
I do not see any argument against granting Gaelic secure status. It is a step forward. The financial difficulties can surely be resolved. Gaelic is worth a blank cheque.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
SNP
A-nis, tha sinn a' gluasad gu deasbad na Gàidhlig.
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
SNP
We now move to the debate on Gaelic.
The member continued in English.
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S1M-3618, in the name of Michael Russell, on the general principles of the Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill. I...
The member continued in Gaelic.
SNP
Tha mi a' gairm Mhìcheil Ruiseal gus an deasbad fhosgladh.
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
SNP
I call Michael Russell to open the debate.
Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Tha an deasbad seo an-diugh a' comharrachadh na darna oidhirp reachdail gus Beurla agus Gàidhlig a chur air stèidh cho-ionann ann an sùilean lagha na h-Alba....
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
SNP
Today's debate marks the second attempt to put the English and Gaelic languages on an equal footing in the eyes of the law of Scotland. The late Donald Stewa...
The member continued in English.
SNP
There are more than 6,000 languages in the world and perhaps as many as 90 per cent of those languages are at risk. Somewhere in the world a language dies ev...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):
Lab
I acknowledge the member's commitment—which he has shown from the beginning of this Parliament—to the protection of the Gaelic language.I represent a constit...
Michael Russell:
SNP
I think that it will assist them. I accept the point that Pauline McNeill makes and I will say something specifically about Glasgow later in my speech.The Ex...
The member continued in Gaelic.
SNP
Agus, anns a' Ghàidhlig,Gu bheil a' Phàrlamaid a' toirt taic do phrionnsabalan coitcheann Bile Cànan na Gàidhlig (Alba).
The Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport (Mike Watson):
Lab
I want to thank the Education, Culture and Sport Committee for the time that it has set aside to consider in depth the issues that have been raised by Michae...
Michael Russell:
SNP
I am happy to provide the letter for the Parliament's consideration. I should point out that it does not say what Mike Watson suggested. Rather, it makes thr...
Mike Watson:
Lab
Surely that was one of the longest interventions in this session of the Parliament.
Michael Russell:
SNP
I was correcting an error.
Mike Watson:
Lab
I have the member's letter here, but I do not propose to quote from it.It is incumbent on any member who is introducing a bill to provide information on the ...
Mr Duncan Hamilton (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
Has Bòrd Gàidhlig na h-Alba now met and has it reached a view on whether it is in favour of the bill?
Mike Watson:
Lab
As is well and publicly recorded, Bòrd Gàidhlig na h-Alba considered the bill and is generally supportive of it, but believes that the bill should be amended...
Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
It is with pleasure that I speak in support of Michael Russell's Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill.The Gaelic language is in an extremely precarious position. ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
Order. I say gently that we do not allow applause from the public gallery, because we might also have abuse or be shouted at from there, as happened the othe...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I welcome the bill and congratulate Michael Russell on introducing it. I am aware of the hard work that he put into it over a long time. I hope that he will ...
John Farquhar Munro (Ross, Skye and Inverness West) (LD):
LD
Tha mi a' cur fàilte air a h-uile duine dhan deasbad shònraichte seo mu dheidhinn Gàidhlig. Cha leig mi leis innse do dhuine sam bith an seo, gu bheil àite g...
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
LD
I welcome everybody to this special debate on Gaelic. I do not have to tell anyone here that Gaelic has a special place in the heart and soul of a proud nati...
Mr Alasdair Morrison (Western Isles) (Lab):
Lab
Anns na ceithir bliadhnaichean a chaidh seachad, tha sinn air adhartas fhaicinn ann an iomadach roinn co-cheangailte ris a' Ghàidhlig. Chaidh rudan a dhèanam...
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
Lab
In the past four years, we have taken a number of important steps in many relevant areas to advance the cause of the Gaelic language. We should be mindful no...
Dr Winnie Ewing (Highlands and Islands) (SNP):
SNP
Tha mi uabhasach toilichte a bhith ann am Pàrlamaid na h-Alba a-rithist, agus tha mi uabhasach toilichte cuideachd gu bheil deasbad againn an-diugh. Tha mi d...
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
SNP
I am happy to be in the Scottish Parliament again and I am pleased that we are having the debate. I am sorry that I am not fluent in Gaelic yet, but I promis...
The member continued in English.
SNP
We were told by our grandparents that Gaelic would hold us back but, as I have just said, that is nonsense. It is proven to everyone's satisfaction that if s...
George Lyon (Argyll and Bute) (LD):
LD
I congratulate Mike Russell on bringing the bill before the Parliament and giving us the opportunity to debate the ways in which we might reverse the alarmin...
Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab):
Lab
I support the principles of the Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill, which Mike Russell promoted and which is being debated. I know that he has put much effort i...