Chamber
Plenary, 05 Mar 2003
05 Mar 2003 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Food Supplements<br />(European Directive)
I thank Ian Jenkins. I will call him to speak a lot at next week's meeting of the Subordinate Legislation Committee.
There is a chance, before August 2005, for the United Kingdom Government to ask for a new law on the issue. If, after debate, we decide that a new law would be the best way forward, we could ask for a new law that would allow national Governments to decide what would be suitable for their different circumstances. As I said, the point of the directive, which was sold on the basis of its raising of safety standards, is harmonisation. Anyone who reads the directive will see in the first two lines that that is the case. It is obvious that we all aspire to harmony, but in this case harmony is not a good idea, because we are all different—as I will explain.
It is not impossible to make a bad law good. However it is done, Scotland must have some sort of derogation from the directive. I suggested to the minister that the UK Government might be prevailed on to think about having a new law on the issue that reflected national circumstances and needs. However, there is an absolute requirement for that in Scotland because lower levels of essential nutrients exist in Scottish soil than exist in soil all over Europe, whence the directive came. As members will know, there is a great difference between Scotland's agricultural methods and those of other areas of Europe.
If the soil from which we obtain our food does not provide sufficient nutrients, we must obtain them in another way. That is where the idea of food supplements, consisting of essential minerals and vitamins, comes in. However, under the directive, the combination of echinacea and vitamin C, for example, would be forbidden. At the moment, we can buy that combined food supplement, which is used without problems by hundreds of thousands of people to prevent colds and influenza. I suppose that it is trendy to take echinacea, which can certainly be taken in conjunction with vitamin C.
The directive will prevent echinacea and vitamin C from being sold in combination because echinacea is regarded as an herbal remedy and vitamin C is regarded as a food supplement. However, there is no justification for not being able to self-medicate or look after ourselves by using those substances together. No contraindications of such use have been noted. There is no history of anyone falling ill because of using the combination or of anyone abusing it and falling foul of it. Therefore, why on earth is it necessary to ban the combined use of echinacea and vitamin C?
It could be argued that echinacea and vitamin C can be bought and taken separately. However, there is no recommended dosage for vitamin C. The recommended level for vitamin C is still being discussed by the European Commission and European food safety organisations. However, we can be certain that the level of vitamin C that will be allowed will be far lower than the level that we are used to taking in this country. That will perhaps be because many of the people who are helping to make the policy come from countries that have lovely sunshine. We have a fantastic sunshine record in Scotland and folk in Leith, for example, will probably never have to bother about what I am saying. However, there are areas in Scotland—in the north-east perhaps—where those who are getting on a bit and who are suffering from colds and flu might feel the need for echinacea and vitamin C taken together. As I said, the chances are that they have been taking them together for a while with no ill effects.
My motion seeks to persuade the Scottish Executive to oppose the directive in whichever ways are constitutional and feasible. That would allow somebody who needs to purchase a remedy or a preventive product that they have been buying for years to continue to do so.
There is a chance, before August 2005, for the United Kingdom Government to ask for a new law on the issue. If, after debate, we decide that a new law would be the best way forward, we could ask for a new law that would allow national Governments to decide what would be suitable for their different circumstances. As I said, the point of the directive, which was sold on the basis of its raising of safety standards, is harmonisation. Anyone who reads the directive will see in the first two lines that that is the case. It is obvious that we all aspire to harmony, but in this case harmony is not a good idea, because we are all different—as I will explain.
It is not impossible to make a bad law good. However it is done, Scotland must have some sort of derogation from the directive. I suggested to the minister that the UK Government might be prevailed on to think about having a new law on the issue that reflected national circumstances and needs. However, there is an absolute requirement for that in Scotland because lower levels of essential nutrients exist in Scottish soil than exist in soil all over Europe, whence the directive came. As members will know, there is a great difference between Scotland's agricultural methods and those of other areas of Europe.
If the soil from which we obtain our food does not provide sufficient nutrients, we must obtain them in another way. That is where the idea of food supplements, consisting of essential minerals and vitamins, comes in. However, under the directive, the combination of echinacea and vitamin C, for example, would be forbidden. At the moment, we can buy that combined food supplement, which is used without problems by hundreds of thousands of people to prevent colds and influenza. I suppose that it is trendy to take echinacea, which can certainly be taken in conjunction with vitamin C.
The directive will prevent echinacea and vitamin C from being sold in combination because echinacea is regarded as an herbal remedy and vitamin C is regarded as a food supplement. However, there is no justification for not being able to self-medicate or look after ourselves by using those substances together. No contraindications of such use have been noted. There is no history of anyone falling ill because of using the combination or of anyone abusing it and falling foul of it. Therefore, why on earth is it necessary to ban the combined use of echinacea and vitamin C?
It could be argued that echinacea and vitamin C can be bought and taken separately. However, there is no recommended dosage for vitamin C. The recommended level for vitamin C is still being discussed by the European Commission and European food safety organisations. However, we can be certain that the level of vitamin C that will be allowed will be far lower than the level that we are used to taking in this country. That will perhaps be because many of the people who are helping to make the policy come from countries that have lovely sunshine. We have a fantastic sunshine record in Scotland and folk in Leith, for example, will probably never have to bother about what I am saying. However, there are areas in Scotland—in the north-east perhaps—where those who are getting on a bit and who are suffering from colds and flu might feel the need for echinacea and vitamin C taken together. As I said, the chances are that they have been taking them together for a while with no ill effects.
My motion seeks to persuade the Scottish Executive to oppose the directive in whichever ways are constitutional and feasible. That would allow somebody who needs to purchase a remedy or a preventive product that they have been buying for years to continue to do so.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr Murray Tosh):
Con
The final item of business is a members' business debate on motion S1M-3830, in the name of Margo MacDonald, on the European directive on food supplements. T...
Motion debated,
That the Parliament notes that millions of people use food supplements and herbal remedies in the UK each year; regrets that the European Commission has publ...
Margo MacDonald (Lothians) (Ind):
Ind
I thank the people who have been campaigning against this measure for a considerable time and regret the fact that it has taken many of us some time to catch...
Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD) rose—
LD
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
I will give way to a superb member of said superb committee.
Ian Jenkins:
LD
The magnificence of the Subordinate Legislation Committee is almost wholly due to the magnificence of its convener, Margo MacDonald. I did not intend to spea...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
I thank Ian Jenkins. I will call him to speak a lot at next week's meeting of the Subordinate Legislation Committee.There is a chance, before August 2005, fo...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
Margo MacDonald might be familiar with the concept of subsidiarity. Would she agree that the matter that we are discussing is a clear example of an area in w...
Meeting suspended.
Meeting resumed in committee room 1.
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
Before we resume business, I ask Alex Johnstone to move a motion without notice on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau. I am minded to accept the motion.
Motion moved,
That the Parliament agrees under Rule 2.7.2 of Standing Orders, that for the purposes of completing Members' Business on Wednesday 5 March 2003, the Meeting ...
Motion agreed to.
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
The recording of the debate for the Official Report was lost during Murdo Fraser's intervention, so I ask him to repeat his intervention, to which Margo MacD...
Murdo Fraser:
Con
I am terrified to open my mouth. Does Margo MacDonald agree that the principle of subsidiarity should apply to the measure and that it should be up to member...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
I agree with Murdo Fraser. The matter is a prima facie case for subsidiarity, because it is obvious that the different cultures and cuisines that are to be f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
Thirteen members had wanted to speak, but I think that we have managed to lose a couple on the way down the road. I ask members to restrict their comments to...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):
Lab
John McAllion said that history might be in the making and that we might be forming the largest meeting of MSPs outside the chamber—who knows? I am glad that...
Shona Robison (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I welcome tonight's important debate. I thank Helen McDade and John McKee from the save our supplements campaign for the very useful information that they pr...
Alex Fergusson (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
The legislation in question is said to be about food safety, but as Shona Robison has pointed out, the products are already fully regulated under current foo...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
It is excellent that Margo MacDonald has secured this debate and I particularly appreciated Alex Fergusson's speech.I want to make a few separate points. Fir...
Irene Oldfather (Cunninghame South) (Lab):
Lab
I am grateful to Margo MacDonald for raising the debate in Parliament. The European Committee is currently considering the matter and Helen Eadie will presen...
Mr Lloyd Quinan (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I declare an interest as convener of the cross-party group on autism and as a member of the European Committee. I will confine my remarks principally to peop...
Margo MacDonald:
Ind
As Mr Quinan said, there are "developing" remedies. I wonder whether he is aware that the directive is defective in that it is so structured as to militate a...
Mr Quinan:
SNP
I whole-heartedly agree with what Margo MacDonald just said—in fact it saves my saying it. Little research has been done in this field, particularly for the ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I commend Margo MacDonald for lodging the motion for this debate. I know that it is customary to say that at members' business, but I say it quite sincerely ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
We are making good progress, but I am minded to accept a motion without notice to extend the meeting by 15 minutes, which should comfortably allow members to...
Members indicated agreement.