Chamber
Plenary, 12 Feb 2003
12 Feb 2003 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Protection of Children (Scotland) Bill
The bill is very much about recognising children's vulnerability and the importance of choosing the right people to work with them. We must remember that the vast majority of adults who work with children are driven by a commitment to child development and welfare. However, we must acknowledge that some adults—albeit a small minority—might want to harm children. We need not dwell on particular examples, but even here in Scotland, we know that abuse happens.
Child abuse is not just about scenes in gritty dramas; we cannot just switch off the television. Real life demands real action, and the proposed new list of adults who are unsuitable to work with children is a considerable improvement to our child protection system. However, as others have said, it is important to remember that the bill does not substitute for robust child protection policies, nor does it tackle the problem of child abuse that occurs behind closed doors in family homes. Nevertheless, the bill is a positive step that seeks to minimise opportunities for people who are intent on harming children.
Up until now, organisations in Scotland that work with children have used criminal records to check the suitability of future employees. Experience shows us that some of the worst incidences of child abuse have been by people with no previous convictions. Although Thomas Hamilton had no convictions, there was information on the files of a number of organisations to suggest that he was a risk. However, that information was not available to potential employers, nor was it collated or able to be shared.
The bill will enable the collation of so-called soft information on those people suspected of child abuse, including details of dismissals or resignations where child welfare was an issue, which will form the basis of a list of people banned from working with children. As members know, an equivalent list already exists in England and Wales. Scotland is clearly no less committed to protecting its children.
The bill has teeth. It will become a requirement for relevant organisations to consult the list. Organisations that employ a named individual will be committing a criminal offence. Organisations will also be obliged to contribute information so that the list is kept up to date. Why? It is because we want a system of child protection that works, not one that simply looks good.
I welcome the amendment lodged by the minister at stage 2 to encompass all child care organisations. We could not leave a potentially dangerous loophole through which adults who wish to abuse children could simply leave the statutory sector and move into employment in the voluntary sector. That loophole would have created a two-tier system that is not in the interests of children. Indeed, the consultation process showed that voluntary organisations agree. Some of them have said that even if they were not legally required to check and report to the list, they would feel morally obliged to do so. Good laws reflect sound moral reasoning and the bill is no exception. However, we must ensure that voluntary organisations have the means to comply with the requirements. I know that the minister will ensure that consulting the list and referring individuals are as easy as possible. If necessary, additional support will be made available, in particular to small voluntary organisations.
As the minister has said, the bill acknowledges the careful balance needed to respect the rights and interests of individuals as well as the special rights of the child. I believe that, between the efforts of the committee and the considerable efforts of the minister, we have got that balance right.
Like others, I commend the minister for the bill. I thank all those involved in getting it to this stage—the bill team, the clerks to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee and all those people who gave evidence. The bill has been strengthened by their input.
I remind the chamber that, under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, we are required to take all appropriate legislative, administrative, social and educational measures to protect children from all forms of physical or mental violence, injury or abuse. To accept the bill is to accept our obligations.
Child abuse is not just about scenes in gritty dramas; we cannot just switch off the television. Real life demands real action, and the proposed new list of adults who are unsuitable to work with children is a considerable improvement to our child protection system. However, as others have said, it is important to remember that the bill does not substitute for robust child protection policies, nor does it tackle the problem of child abuse that occurs behind closed doors in family homes. Nevertheless, the bill is a positive step that seeks to minimise opportunities for people who are intent on harming children.
Up until now, organisations in Scotland that work with children have used criminal records to check the suitability of future employees. Experience shows us that some of the worst incidences of child abuse have been by people with no previous convictions. Although Thomas Hamilton had no convictions, there was information on the files of a number of organisations to suggest that he was a risk. However, that information was not available to potential employers, nor was it collated or able to be shared.
The bill will enable the collation of so-called soft information on those people suspected of child abuse, including details of dismissals or resignations where child welfare was an issue, which will form the basis of a list of people banned from working with children. As members know, an equivalent list already exists in England and Wales. Scotland is clearly no less committed to protecting its children.
The bill has teeth. It will become a requirement for relevant organisations to consult the list. Organisations that employ a named individual will be committing a criminal offence. Organisations will also be obliged to contribute information so that the list is kept up to date. Why? It is because we want a system of child protection that works, not one that simply looks good.
I welcome the amendment lodged by the minister at stage 2 to encompass all child care organisations. We could not leave a potentially dangerous loophole through which adults who wish to abuse children could simply leave the statutory sector and move into employment in the voluntary sector. That loophole would have created a two-tier system that is not in the interests of children. Indeed, the consultation process showed that voluntary organisations agree. Some of them have said that even if they were not legally required to check and report to the list, they would feel morally obliged to do so. Good laws reflect sound moral reasoning and the bill is no exception. However, we must ensure that voluntary organisations have the means to comply with the requirements. I know that the minister will ensure that consulting the list and referring individuals are as easy as possible. If necessary, additional support will be made available, in particular to small voluntary organisations.
As the minister has said, the bill acknowledges the careful balance needed to respect the rights and interests of individuals as well as the special rights of the child. I believe that, between the efforts of the committee and the considerable efforts of the minister, we have got that balance right.
Like others, I commend the minister for the bill. I thank all those involved in getting it to this stage—the bill team, the clerks to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee and all those people who gave evidence. The bill has been strengthened by their input.
I remind the chamber that, under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, we are required to take all appropriate legislative, administrative, social and educational measures to protect children from all forms of physical or mental violence, injury or abuse. To accept the bill is to accept our obligations.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr Murray Tosh):
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S1M-3705, in the name of Cathy Jamieson, that the Protection of Children (Scotland) Bill be passed.I call on ...
The Minister for Education and Young People (Cathy Jamieson):
Lab
I am sure that the Presiding Officer does not want me to be so flexible that I take up the next two hours.I begin by thanking everyone who was involved in th...
Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab):
Lab
The minister is talking about striking a balance between children's rights and employment rights, but is she aware of the Scottish Trades Union Congress's co...
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
I am happy to give Cathy Peattie that assurance and I will come on to that issue in a moment or two.We have been careful to ensure that there is no scope for...
Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
No one is in any doubt that we in Parliament need to do all that we can to increase the protection that we afford our children. The bill, as the minister sai...
Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I, too, am pleased to lend my support to the bill. I congratulate the minister and her team on their success in taking the bill through Parliament; I also co...
Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
I, too, thank everyone who was involved in the bill's production, including the witnesses who spoke to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee, our clerks...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
I welcome the bill and look forward to its becoming an act. For many of us, it has been difficult to come to terms with some of the detail of the bill, but t...
Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
It shows what a varied life the members of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee have that this morning we were all engaged in a battle of ideas and wil...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab):
Lab
The bill is very much about recognising children's vulnerability and the importance of choosing the right people to work with them. We must remember that the...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
I welcome the minister's assurance about giving support, guidance and training—or words to that effect—to the voluntary sector, which has to deal with its si...
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
I will deal with the points that Donald Gorrie has just raised before commenting on the rest of the debate. I am aware that YouthLink Scotland has circulated...