Chamber
Plenary, 06 Feb 2003
06 Feb 2003 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Organic Farming Targets (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I think that I got the essential point.
The fundamental issue is that the Executive works with stakeholders to produce all sorts of plans. Our agricultural strategy, for example, was drawn up largely by stakeholders. We did not, however, commit it to statute, although many people in the industry look for more statutory support. The debate today is not an argument between Robin Harper and me about the need for greater commitment and development of the organic industry.
I do not believe that Parliament should set statutory frameworks to do that. The industry has to decide what it will do, although it is clear that Government has a role to play. I hope that the "Organic Action Plan" and other documents in which we have set out the Executive's strategic framework show the sense of leadership and direction that is necessary from the Executive. Ultimately, however, it is the market that has to decide how much, where, when and what segment of organic farming to promote—the individual farmer has to take that view.
The great problem that we have in Scotland is that, over time, we have to wean the rest of farming in Scotland off subsidy and direction. It is entirely inconsistent to say that we should have greater statutory control when the general agreement across the whole of the industry is that that is not the right direction to take. The standards that are contained in the action plan are the ones that I want to set and achieve.
The action plan sets out important ways in which the Executive can better support the organic sector's attainment of those aspirations. As I announced, we will consult on a package of measures that will include better payment rates for organic conversion. We will also consult on support for the capital costs that are associated with organic conversion and the various ways in which we can offer continuing support for the environmental benefits of organic farming after the initial conversion period.
On the marketing side, the action plan includes prioritisation of organic projects for grant assistance and support for the development of Scottish organic branding. We are commissioning ambitious research to help the development of the organic sector. We have accepted the challenge in the bill for the Executive to report annually on the delivery of its action plan and we will use that opportunity to make sure that, year by year, we support the organic sector as effectively as possible.
In conclusion, I want to reiterate that, in conjunction with the industry, the Executive is wholly committed to promoting, developing and assisting a sustainable organic sector in Scotland. The Executive is also committed to achieving a doubling of the organically farmed area and to Scottish products meeting at least 70 per cent of the market demand for organic products.
Having set those principles in place, I reiterate that we are opposed to the concept that some loose targeted arrangement should be enshrined in statute. Even in the words of Robin Harper, it would appear that to do so would have no effect, would be unenforceable and would not add up to anything worthy of the name of legislation. On those narrow grounds alone, I am opposed to the bill.
The fundamental issue is that the Executive works with stakeholders to produce all sorts of plans. Our agricultural strategy, for example, was drawn up largely by stakeholders. We did not, however, commit it to statute, although many people in the industry look for more statutory support. The debate today is not an argument between Robin Harper and me about the need for greater commitment and development of the organic industry.
I do not believe that Parliament should set statutory frameworks to do that. The industry has to decide what it will do, although it is clear that Government has a role to play. I hope that the "Organic Action Plan" and other documents in which we have set out the Executive's strategic framework show the sense of leadership and direction that is necessary from the Executive. Ultimately, however, it is the market that has to decide how much, where, when and what segment of organic farming to promote—the individual farmer has to take that view.
The great problem that we have in Scotland is that, over time, we have to wean the rest of farming in Scotland off subsidy and direction. It is entirely inconsistent to say that we should have greater statutory control when the general agreement across the whole of the industry is that that is not the right direction to take. The standards that are contained in the action plan are the ones that I want to set and achieve.
The action plan sets out important ways in which the Executive can better support the organic sector's attainment of those aspirations. As I announced, we will consult on a package of measures that will include better payment rates for organic conversion. We will also consult on support for the capital costs that are associated with organic conversion and the various ways in which we can offer continuing support for the environmental benefits of organic farming after the initial conversion period.
On the marketing side, the action plan includes prioritisation of organic projects for grant assistance and support for the development of Scottish organic branding. We are commissioning ambitious research to help the development of the organic sector. We have accepted the challenge in the bill for the Executive to report annually on the delivery of its action plan and we will use that opportunity to make sure that, year by year, we support the organic sector as effectively as possible.
In conclusion, I want to reiterate that, in conjunction with the industry, the Executive is wholly committed to promoting, developing and assisting a sustainable organic sector in Scotland. The Executive is also committed to achieving a doubling of the organically farmed area and to Scottish products meeting at least 70 per cent of the market demand for organic products.
Having set those principles in place, I reiterate that we are opposed to the concept that some loose targeted arrangement should be enshrined in statute. Even in the words of Robin Harper, it would appear that to do so would have no effect, would be unenforceable and would not add up to anything worthy of the name of legislation. On those narrow grounds alone, I am opposed to the bill.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr Murray Tosh):
Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S1M-3856, in the name of Robin Harper, on the general principles of the Organic Farming Targets (Scotland) Bi...
Robin Harper (Lothians) (Green):
Green
It is with great pleasure that I invite the Parliament to approve the general principles of the Organic Farming Targets (Scotland) Bill. This small but beaut...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab):
Lab
I recognise Robin Harper's work and I am genuinely listening to him. He knows that I have supported what he is doing. It would help if he explained how statu...
Robin Harper:
Green
My speech will cover that.The nature and size of the targets in the bill troubled the Rural Development Committee. I told the committee that I would be prepa...
Michael Russell (South of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
All of us have seen the courteous letters that were exchanged between Robin Harper and the Minister for Environment and Rural Development. I have difficulty ...
Robin Harper:
Green
Mike Russell virtually took the words out of my mouth. He evinced the same concerns as I have and enunciated the way forward that the Executive could have ac...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
You are over time.
Robin Harper:
Green
I am pleased that, two days ago, the Executive published the "Organic Action Plan" with targets. The uncharitable might view that as an attempt to head off t...
The Minister for Environment and Rural Development (Ross Finnie):
LD
I welcome the debate on how best to support sustainable development in the Scottish organic sector. I make it clear that the Executive does not regard the su...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
I accept the point that the minister makes, but will he accept that another important argument is about affordability? Does he accept that the Executive will...
Ross Finnie:
LD
With all due respect, I am not arguing against that. I wholly support that view. I merely said that it is wrong to suggest that the Executive can set some so...
Michael Russell:
SNP
I want to raise a point with the minister that I raised in my intervention on Robin Harper. It is very difficult for private members to introduce bills. Desp...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
Mr Russell, your question was rather long-winded.
Ross Finnie:
LD
I think that I got the essential point. The fundamental issue is that the Executive works with stakeholders to produce all sorts of plans. Our agricultural s...
Bruce Crawford (Mid Scotland and Fife) (SNP):
SNP
First, I congratulate Robin Harper on producing a bill that has already had a considerable impact on the Executive's approach to the organic farming sector, ...
Robin Harper:
Green
Will the member take an intervention?
Bruce Crawford:
SNP
I will do so, but I first want to say something to qualify what I have just said. It would be preferable for targets to be introduced through, for example, a...
Robin Harper:
Green
Does the member accept that the SOPA representative later conceded that he was speaking for himself rather than for SOPA when he said what the member quoted?
Bruce Crawford:
SNP
That is true—I accept that entirely. I do not think that we should not have targets or that there cannot be targets, but the issue is how to achieve them and...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
Please close, Mr Crawford.
Bruce Crawford:
SNP
I will be brief. In Aberdeen, the First Minister told us that, where it was possible and achievable, he would discuss with members introducing members' bills...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
I am afraid that there is no scope for members to overrun their time limits in the way that Bruce Crawford has done. Members should stick closely to the time...
Alex Fergusson (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
I will preface my speech as the rural affairs spokesman for the Scottish Conservatives with some sentences as convener of the Rural Development Committee. Fi...
Robin Harper:
Green
Does the member accept that conventional farming is not market led and that it exists on subsidies? Why should organic farming not receive similar support?
Alex Fergusson:
Con
I will come to that matter. Mr Harper is well aware that there is a separate organic aid scheme.The evidence that the past chairman of SOPA gave us and lette...
Mr Alasdair Morrison (Western Isles) (Lab):
Lab
We are not debating the merits of organic farming; we are debating the general principles of a bill in Robin Harper's name. I intimate that I will not suppor...
Bruce Crawford:
SNP
Does Alasdair Morrison agree that the action plan does not bring us entirely into line with England and Wales, because in Wales targets have been set for org...
Mr Morrison:
Lab
I find it perplexing that the targets within a bill entitled the Organic Farming Targets (Scotland) Bill would not be statutory or binding, as Robin Harper s...
Robin Harper rose—
Green
Mr Morrison:
Lab
I would like Mr Harper to let me continue. We should consider where the considerable amount of money that is spent supporting farming is deployed. Could that...