Chamber
Plenary, 15 Jan 2003
15 Jan 2003 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Commissioner for Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I begin by congratulating the committee on the work that it has done. The Parliament should also thank the committee for the work that it has done on the bill. It is quite an achievement.
I remember what I think was the first meeting of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee in 1999, when we sat about and said, "What are we going to do for the next four years?" The children's commissioner was one of the items raised at that time, and it is an achievement that, before the end of the parliamentary session, we will have the ability to appoint a children's commissioner in Scotland.
I followed the germination of the bill. Donald Gorrie and I are perhaps the only members to take part in today's debate who have followed the bill's progress from afar. That interest might allow me to bring to the stage 2 discussions some issues that could be considered so that the bill is exactly right. I mean no criticism of the work that has been done, but that would lend a fresh eye to some of the work.
The investigations that the commissioner will be able to undertake will be a huge part of the commissioner's work. The Education, Culture and Sport Committee took a great amount of evidence on that matter. I know that the committee rejected the idea that the commissioner should be able to investigate individual complaints. That is clearly stated in section 7(3)(b). I remind the stage 2 committee that we are talking about human rights, and children have human rights as well. The Paris principles, which relate to the monitoring of human rights, do not proscribe commissioners and regulators from investigating the cases of individuals who feel that the system has let them down. I offer a word of caution, because there may well be times when individual young people and children feel that they have exhausted the processes that are available to them.
I remember what I think was the first meeting of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee in 1999, when we sat about and said, "What are we going to do for the next four years?" The children's commissioner was one of the items raised at that time, and it is an achievement that, before the end of the parliamentary session, we will have the ability to appoint a children's commissioner in Scotland.
I followed the germination of the bill. Donald Gorrie and I are perhaps the only members to take part in today's debate who have followed the bill's progress from afar. That interest might allow me to bring to the stage 2 discussions some issues that could be considered so that the bill is exactly right. I mean no criticism of the work that has been done, but that would lend a fresh eye to some of the work.
The investigations that the commissioner will be able to undertake will be a huge part of the commissioner's work. The Education, Culture and Sport Committee took a great amount of evidence on that matter. I know that the committee rejected the idea that the commissioner should be able to investigate individual complaints. That is clearly stated in section 7(3)(b). I remind the stage 2 committee that we are talking about human rights, and children have human rights as well. The Paris principles, which relate to the monitoring of human rights, do not proscribe commissioners and regulators from investigating the cases of individuals who feel that the system has let them down. I offer a word of caution, because there may well be times when individual young people and children feel that they have exhausted the processes that are available to them.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel):
NPA
The first of our debates today is a debate on motion S1M-3689, in the name of Karen Gillon, on stage 1 of the Commissioner for Children and Young People (Sco...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
Members are sometimes surprised by how relevant the topic at time for reflection is to the debate that follows. Today's time for reflection was certainly rel...
The Minister for Education and Young People (Cathy Jamieson):
Lab
Like Karen Gillon, I welcome in particular the young people who have come to the public gallery to listen to the debate. The debate centres around the best i...
Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I begin by conveying apologies from Michael Russell, who is, unfortunately, unwell this afternoon. On a happier note, I congratulate Karen Gillon on her comp...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I offer the apologies of my colleague Brian Monteith, who is not able to be with us for the whole of this afternoon's debate. Unfortunately he is attending a...
Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
There is a sense of déjà vu about this debate, because it is not long since committee members talked about the report that established the case for the appoi...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
In the open debate, we have time for two short speeches of three minutes each.
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab):
Lab
I add my thanks to the clerks, to NEBU, to my parliamentary colleagues on the Education, Culture and Sport Committee and, in particular, to Irene McGugan. Su...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
Speaking as a genuine wrinkly—unlike the young ladies on the Labour benches—I have been actively involved in discussing and promoting this subject over the p...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
We now move to closing speeches, which should be of three minutes.
Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD):
LD
I congratulate Karen Gillon and the Education, Culture and Sport Committee on introducing the bill. In years gone by, I was a member of the committee, but I ...
Ian Jenkins:
LD
I take it that Mr Stone is speaking as a smoothie, rather than as a wrinkly.
Mr Stone:
LD
As they said in "Beyond the Fringe", Esau was a hairy man, but I am a smooth man.Sorry, Ian Jenkins has thrown me, completely and utterly.Like all the other ...
Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I thank the Presiding Officer for allowing me to arrive late for the debate following my attendance at a family funeral. I am pleased to be able to make a co...
Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I begin by congratulating the committee on the work that it has done. The Parliament should also thank the committee for the work that it has done on the bil...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
Does Fiona McLeod accept that we have created a new public services ombudsman and that the Parliament should say to the ombudsman from the outset that they m...
Fiona McLeod:
SNP
I am not looking for the commissioner to be the last court of appeal, but having talked about exhausting the process, I hope that there will always be someon...
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to say a few words in closing for the Executive. The debate has been short but useful. All members have given a clear commitment to...
Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab):
Lab
I thank all the members who participated in the debate. The response has been positive, even from the wrinklies and the smoothie—wherever he is.The bill prov...