Chamber
Plenary, 15 Jan 2003
15 Jan 2003 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Commissioner for Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
I offer the apologies of my colleague Brian Monteith, who is not able to be with us for the whole of this afternoon's debate. Unfortunately he is attending a family funeral, but he hopes to be with us later if time allows.
As deputy education spokesman for the Conservatives, I am pleased to contribute to the debate on the bill to create a children's commissioner. I do not deny that my party's approach has been rather sceptical from the outset, as members of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee will be aware. I do not apologise for that; indeed I sometimes wish that there were more scepticism about legislation.
It is to be regretted that so many people—especially some of those elected to the Parliament—believe that the Parliament's success should be measured by the quantity of legislation rather than by its quality. To borrow a phrase from manufacturing, it is not the productivity that matters but the build quality. Lawmaking is a serious business, and it is important that we examine whether other approaches might be used before we commit ourselves to legislation.
It is crucial that an initially attractive idea about the need for a children's commissioner was challenged and justification sought. I believe that the Education, Culture and Sport Committee understood its role in that regard and that it has made a case for a children's commissioner that we will support. It is our belief that the evidence that was presented justified the introduction of the committee bill and I congratulate the convener on her introductory remarks.
Evidence from witnesses who are active in the field of child law, protection and care have made a compelling case, especially for giving looked-after children a voice. During the evidence sessions, my colleague Brian Monteith said that a commissioner should be able to walk before he or she can run, and I am glad that the committee has resisted calls to give the commissioner even greater powers than are provided for in the bill.
Account has been taken of a number of our concerns, such as the possible threat of family and parental rights and responsibilities being challenged. The possibility of the commissioner taking up individual cases has been reined back and the suggestion that the commissioner would represent the views of Scotland's youth has, quite properly, been disposed of.
Let us have a commissioner who can consider how we can better protect children and how the public services that seek to protect them can be more attentive to their needs than to those of the producers. Let the commissioner report to the Parliament so that we can debate what further measures, if any, must be taken to right wrongs and to relieve injustices. Once the commissioner has had time to bed down and to show what can be done and what might be a weakness in how he or she operates, the Parliament can reconsider—in 10 or more years' time—whether fine tuning or new legislation is needed.
The Conservatives are willing adherents to the bill and we will give it our support in the vote later this afternoon.
As deputy education spokesman for the Conservatives, I am pleased to contribute to the debate on the bill to create a children's commissioner. I do not deny that my party's approach has been rather sceptical from the outset, as members of the Education, Culture and Sport Committee will be aware. I do not apologise for that; indeed I sometimes wish that there were more scepticism about legislation.
It is to be regretted that so many people—especially some of those elected to the Parliament—believe that the Parliament's success should be measured by the quantity of legislation rather than by its quality. To borrow a phrase from manufacturing, it is not the productivity that matters but the build quality. Lawmaking is a serious business, and it is important that we examine whether other approaches might be used before we commit ourselves to legislation.
It is crucial that an initially attractive idea about the need for a children's commissioner was challenged and justification sought. I believe that the Education, Culture and Sport Committee understood its role in that regard and that it has made a case for a children's commissioner that we will support. It is our belief that the evidence that was presented justified the introduction of the committee bill and I congratulate the convener on her introductory remarks.
Evidence from witnesses who are active in the field of child law, protection and care have made a compelling case, especially for giving looked-after children a voice. During the evidence sessions, my colleague Brian Monteith said that a commissioner should be able to walk before he or she can run, and I am glad that the committee has resisted calls to give the commissioner even greater powers than are provided for in the bill.
Account has been taken of a number of our concerns, such as the possible threat of family and parental rights and responsibilities being challenged. The possibility of the commissioner taking up individual cases has been reined back and the suggestion that the commissioner would represent the views of Scotland's youth has, quite properly, been disposed of.
Let us have a commissioner who can consider how we can better protect children and how the public services that seek to protect them can be more attentive to their needs than to those of the producers. Let the commissioner report to the Parliament so that we can debate what further measures, if any, must be taken to right wrongs and to relieve injustices. Once the commissioner has had time to bed down and to show what can be done and what might be a weakness in how he or she operates, the Parliament can reconsider—in 10 or more years' time—whether fine tuning or new legislation is needed.
The Conservatives are willing adherents to the bill and we will give it our support in the vote later this afternoon.
In the same item of business
The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel):
NPA
The first of our debates today is a debate on motion S1M-3689, in the name of Karen Gillon, on stage 1 of the Commissioner for Children and Young People (Sco...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab):
Lab
Members are sometimes surprised by how relevant the topic at time for reflection is to the debate that follows. Today's time for reflection was certainly rel...
The Minister for Education and Young People (Cathy Jamieson):
Lab
Like Karen Gillon, I welcome in particular the young people who have come to the public gallery to listen to the debate. The debate centres around the best i...
Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I begin by conveying apologies from Michael Russell, who is, unfortunately, unwell this afternoon. On a happier note, I congratulate Karen Gillon on her comp...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I offer the apologies of my colleague Brian Monteith, who is not able to be with us for the whole of this afternoon's debate. Unfortunately he is attending a...
Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
There is a sense of déjà vu about this debate, because it is not long since committee members talked about the report that established the case for the appoi...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
In the open debate, we have time for two short speeches of three minutes each.
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab):
Lab
I add my thanks to the clerks, to NEBU, to my parliamentary colleagues on the Education, Culture and Sport Committee and, in particular, to Irene McGugan. Su...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
Speaking as a genuine wrinkly—unlike the young ladies on the Labour benches—I have been actively involved in discussing and promoting this subject over the p...
The Presiding Officer:
NPA
We now move to closing speeches, which should be of three minutes.
Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD):
LD
I congratulate Karen Gillon and the Education, Culture and Sport Committee on introducing the bill. In years gone by, I was a member of the committee, but I ...
Ian Jenkins:
LD
I take it that Mr Stone is speaking as a smoothie, rather than as a wrinkly.
Mr Stone:
LD
As they said in "Beyond the Fringe", Esau was a hairy man, but I am a smooth man.Sorry, Ian Jenkins has thrown me, completely and utterly.Like all the other ...
Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
I thank the Presiding Officer for allowing me to arrive late for the debate following my attendance at a family funeral. I am pleased to be able to make a co...
Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
I begin by congratulating the committee on the work that it has done. The Parliament should also thank the committee for the work that it has done on the bil...
Karen Gillon:
Lab
Does Fiona McLeod accept that we have created a new public services ombudsman and that the Parliament should say to the ombudsman from the outset that they m...
Fiona McLeod:
SNP
I am not looking for the commissioner to be the last court of appeal, but having talked about exhausting the process, I hope that there will always be someon...
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
I welcome the opportunity to say a few words in closing for the Executive. The debate has been short but useful. All members have given a clear commitment to...
Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab):
Lab
I thank all the members who participated in the debate. The response has been positive, even from the wrinklies and the smoothie—wherever he is.The bill prov...