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Chamber

Plenary, 15 Jan 2003

15 Jan 2003 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Commissioner for Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Jamieson, Cathy Lab Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley Watch on SPTV
Like Karen Gillon, I welcome in particular the young people who have come to the public gallery to listen to the debate. The debate centres around the best interests of children and young people in Scotland, so it is important that they get the opportunity to hear us restate some of the commitments that we have made previously.

I congratulate the Education, Culture and Sport Committee on the work that it has done in considering the case for a children's commissioner and in bringing forward a bill to establish a commissioner in Scotland. Today is one of the days in the Parliament that I will remember, as someone who over many years has been involved at various stages in the campaigns and in some of the preparation work for such a post. I am sure that others who have been involved in the process will also remember this day. We can take this opportunity to reflect on the fact that the existence of the Scottish Parliament has allowed us to consider children's issues in a way that was not previously possible.

Children are at the heart of the Scottish Executive's agenda. We are committed to building a Scotland where every child matters and where every child and young person gets the best possible start in life and can realise their potential. The First Minister has established a Cabinet sub-committee on children's services. Our budget plans for the next three years confirm our commitment to supporting children and their families and build on the wide range of work that we have undertaken during the past few years to close the opportunity gap for Scotland's children.

We continue to support the better-integrated delivery of children's services throughout Scotland. We have established the changing children's services fund to try to bring about changes in the way in which local authorities, health boards and the voluntary sector work together to deliver better outcomes for some of the most vulnerable and disadvantaged young people.

I believe that we have come a long way in the past few years and I want to say a wee bit about how we have progressed in respect of encouraging the involvement of children and young people. What happens now is a far cry from the days when I worked with various youth organisations—we sometimes had to beat a path to the door of people in local and central Government. Young people now have the right to be consulted on issues that concern them. We have stressed the importance of consulting children in children's services plans and we have provided practical tools to enable people to do that. Through the national debate on education, we are engaging with children as well as with parents, teachers, employers and everyone else who has an interest in education. We have involved young people, including from the Scottish youth parliament, in a range of consultations. That is now expected and is becoming the norm.

Just last Wednesday, we discussed the important issue of child protection, following the recent report of the child protection audit and review. The week before that, we issued the interim report of the working group on young runaways and children abused through prostitution. We are committed to developing a children's charter to centre the child protection system around the needs of the child. Children and young people will, of course, be closely involved in the development of that charter. We are also in the process of consulting on an improved approach to child witnesses to ensure that children's voices are heard. Through the Protection of Children (Scotland) Bill, we seek to establish a list of adults who are unsuitable to work with children.

That is by no means an exhaustive list of the work that has been taken forward in the past year, but it is an indication of the way in which the Executive and the Parliament have been able to focus on children's issues. I want the Parliament to take every opportunity to improve the lives of children and young people. That is why I welcome the proposed establishment of a commissioner for children and young people.

A commissioner for children and young people could provide a strong voice for the most vulnerable and disadvantaged children in Scotland. A commissioner could help to make a real difference to the lives of children and young people, particularly those who often feel that they are not listened to. We have an opportunity through bill to establish a commissioner who can achieve all those things—a commissioner who can have a positive impact on the lives of children and young people. To achieve that, we need to ensure that the role, remit and powers of the commissioner will allow them to build on the strengths and address the weaknesses of the present system.

I welcome the bill's focus on promoting children's rights and its reference to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. We need to raise awareness among children and the wider public—parents, professionals and, indeed, politicians—about children's rights, including the right to be kept safe from harm and to be protected from exploitation and abuse.

The bill's focus on involving children and young people is also to be warmly welcomed. A commissioner should seek to engage with children and young people, listen to their views and reflect those views in his or her work. A commissioner should provide a voice for children and young people, especially those who are most excluded.

The question whether a commissioner would be able to conduct investigations has aroused considerable interest, as Karen Gillon said. It is important that the commissioner's remit allows him or her to undertake generic policy investigations and reviews. That would allow him or her to focus on specific areas, to identify systems' strengths and weaknesses and to make recommendations for change. I welcome the fact that the bill provides that investigations will not relate to reserved matters. That is in line with the Executive's view that the commissioner's overall remit should mirror that of the Scottish Parliament.

The commissioner will need to build strong links with other agencies. He or she will have a wide remit and, inevitably, there will be significant overlap with the work of other statutory and voluntary organisations. I am sure that a commissioner would want to build on the expertise of existing organisations and to develop co-operative working arrangements with other agencies and ombudsmen, including the human rights commission that we are committed to establishing. It is important that the bill encourages such partnership working and I hope that the ad hoc committee will examine that point carefully. It is important that the commissioner does not unnecessarily duplicate the work of other organisations and I welcome the recognition of the importance of ensuring that a commissioner adds value.

We need to be sure that the bill does not prevent the commissioner from carrying out investigations in areas that may also be of concern to other bodies. There may be situations where the commissioner is better placed than other organisations to conduct an investigation or where a joint investigation is appropriate. It would be helpful if the ad hoc committee could carefully consider those matters to ensure that we strike the right balance and do not inadvertently preclude such partnership working.

The committee will also wish to ensure that the bill strikes the right balance between providing clarity to organisations about whether they are included within the commissioner's remit and ensuring that the legislation is sufficiently flexible to cover the range of issues that impact on children.

I welcome the introduction of the Commissioner for Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill. The Education, Culture and Sport Committee has done a considerable amount of work on it and a considerable amount of work will still have to be done as the bill goes through the process. I look forward to working with the convener and other members of the ad hoc committee to ensure that we have a commissioner for children who will deliver for children and young people throughout Scotland.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Sir David Steel): NPA
The first of our debates today is a debate on motion S1M-3689, in the name of Karen Gillon, on stage 1 of the Commissioner for Children and Young People (Sco...
Karen Gillon (Clydesdale) (Lab): Lab
Members are sometimes surprised by how relevant the topic at time for reflection is to the debate that follows. Today's time for reflection was certainly rel...
The Minister for Education and Young People (Cathy Jamieson): Lab
Like Karen Gillon, I welcome in particular the young people who have come to the public gallery to listen to the debate. The debate centres around the best i...
Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP): SNP
I begin by conveying apologies from Michael Russell, who is, unfortunately, unwell this afternoon. On a happier note, I congratulate Karen Gillon on her comp...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): Con
I offer the apologies of my colleague Brian Monteith, who is not able to be with us for the whole of this afternoon's debate. Unfortunately he is attending a...
Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD): LD
There is a sense of déjà vu about this debate, because it is not long since committee members talked about the report that established the case for the appoi...
The Presiding Officer: NPA
In the open debate, we have time for two short speeches of three minutes each.
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab): Lab
I add my thanks to the clerks, to NEBU, to my parliamentary colleagues on the Education, Culture and Sport Committee and, in particular, to Irene McGugan. Su...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): LD
Speaking as a genuine wrinkly—unlike the young ladies on the Labour benches—I have been actively involved in discussing and promoting this subject over the p...
The Presiding Officer: NPA
We now move to closing speeches, which should be of three minutes.
Mr Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD): LD
I congratulate Karen Gillon and the Education, Culture and Sport Committee on introducing the bill. In years gone by, I was a member of the committee, but I ...
Ian Jenkins: LD
I take it that Mr Stone is speaking as a smoothie, rather than as a wrinkly.
Mr Stone: LD
As they said in "Beyond the Fringe", Esau was a hairy man, but I am a smooth man.Sorry, Ian Jenkins has thrown me, completely and utterly.Like all the other ...
Mr Brian Monteith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con): Con
I thank the Presiding Officer for allowing me to arrive late for the debate following my attendance at a family funeral. I am pleased to be able to make a co...
Fiona McLeod (West of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
I begin by congratulating the committee on the work that it has done. The Parliament should also thank the committee for the work that it has done on the bil...
Karen Gillon: Lab
Does Fiona McLeod accept that we have created a new public services ombudsman and that the Parliament should say to the ombudsman from the outset that they m...
Fiona McLeod: SNP
I am not looking for the commissioner to be the last court of appeal, but having talked about exhausting the process, I hope that there will always be someon...
Cathy Jamieson: Lab
I welcome the opportunity to say a few words in closing for the Executive. The debate has been short but useful. All members have given a clear commitment to...
Cathy Peattie (Falkirk East) (Lab): Lab
I thank all the members who participated in the debate. The response has been positive, even from the wrinklies and the smoothie—wherever he is.The bill prov...