Chamber
Plenary, 09 Jan 2003
09 Jan 2003 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Child Protection Review
I welcome the steps that the Executive has taken to try to deal better with the problem of child protection. I shall try not to rehash some of the excellent points made by other speakers.
On resources, as usual I will ask not only for more resources, but for better-directed resources. We need adequate staff, but the figures that we have been given show that, in some council areas, 25 per cent vacancies exist in child services. There is no point in having lots of schemes if there are no people to deliver them. That must be dealt with. The problem is increasing because referrals from the reporters to the children's panel have gone up by 69 per cent, which indicates the size of the problem. As Colin Campbell said, GAE resources from the centre to the councils are a third less than what the councils are spending. I often criticise councils for spending money on the wrong things, but here they are clearly on the side of the angels. They are doing a better job on that than central Government is, and we must address that.
We must get better value in a number of ways, by rolling out more rapidly and vigorously examples of good work, which do exist. Something that we are very bad at in Scotland, for some reason, is copying things from one another. The main Scottish industry is reinventing the wheel. We need more co-operation and access to information across agencies. The minister is trying to achieve that and we need to get a firm grip on it.
If we put more resources into foster care, so that payments are somewhat more generous and support is better, we would solve a lot of other problems. Good foster care is one of the best and most effective ways of dealing with the issues that we are discussing today. I particularly welcome the minister's announcement of progress on the question of missing children and runaways; I gather that there are about 9,000 of them every year. I am one of those who have for a long time been passing on the concerns of some youth organisations that resources to deal with that problem are totally inadequate.
We should also put more resources into voluntary organisations that try to counter the break-up of marriages and partnerships, because that is the point from which many later problems stem. There are some good organisations that are seriously underfunded. The children's commissioner is a welcome development. Many of us have been arguing for that for some time, and it will help to bring together a lot of the issues and will keep on prodding us in the right direction.
We need more positive outlets for children. If there are more youth clubs, scout troops and football clubs for young kids to get involved in, that helps them in a number of ways to avoid those problems.
We need to be sympathetic to the problems of voluntary organisations. We want an all-embracing vetting system that catches all the potential villains so that they do not slip through the net, but the present system is unduly bureaucratic and people have to make repeat applications. For example, if I help at an Easter play scheme, I would then have to reapply if I want to help at a summer play scheme or an after-school club. That is ridiculous. The vetting system also creates substantial administrative costs for voluntary organisations, which are a major issue for small and large organisations. I hope that sympathy will be shown for how the voluntary sector is supposed to deliver.
On resources, as usual I will ask not only for more resources, but for better-directed resources. We need adequate staff, but the figures that we have been given show that, in some council areas, 25 per cent vacancies exist in child services. There is no point in having lots of schemes if there are no people to deliver them. That must be dealt with. The problem is increasing because referrals from the reporters to the children's panel have gone up by 69 per cent, which indicates the size of the problem. As Colin Campbell said, GAE resources from the centre to the councils are a third less than what the councils are spending. I often criticise councils for spending money on the wrong things, but here they are clearly on the side of the angels. They are doing a better job on that than central Government is, and we must address that.
We must get better value in a number of ways, by rolling out more rapidly and vigorously examples of good work, which do exist. Something that we are very bad at in Scotland, for some reason, is copying things from one another. The main Scottish industry is reinventing the wheel. We need more co-operation and access to information across agencies. The minister is trying to achieve that and we need to get a firm grip on it.
If we put more resources into foster care, so that payments are somewhat more generous and support is better, we would solve a lot of other problems. Good foster care is one of the best and most effective ways of dealing with the issues that we are discussing today. I particularly welcome the minister's announcement of progress on the question of missing children and runaways; I gather that there are about 9,000 of them every year. I am one of those who have for a long time been passing on the concerns of some youth organisations that resources to deal with that problem are totally inadequate.
We should also put more resources into voluntary organisations that try to counter the break-up of marriages and partnerships, because that is the point from which many later problems stem. There are some good organisations that are seriously underfunded. The children's commissioner is a welcome development. Many of us have been arguing for that for some time, and it will help to bring together a lot of the issues and will keep on prodding us in the right direction.
We need more positive outlets for children. If there are more youth clubs, scout troops and football clubs for young kids to get involved in, that helps them in a number of ways to avoid those problems.
We need to be sympathetic to the problems of voluntary organisations. We want an all-embracing vetting system that catches all the potential villains so that they do not slip through the net, but the present system is unduly bureaucratic and people have to make repeat applications. For example, if I help at an Easter play scheme, I would then have to reapply if I want to help at a summer play scheme or an after-school club. That is ridiculous. The vetting system also creates substantial administrative costs for voluntary organisations, which are a major issue for small and large organisations. I hope that sympathy will be shown for how the voluntary sector is supposed to deliver.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid):
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S1M-3748, in the name of Cathy Jamieson, on the review of child protection, and two amendments to that motion.
The Minister for Education and Young People (Cathy Jamieson):
Lab
The new year is traditionally a time to look back and reflect, but also a time when we make our resolutions for the future and signal the changes that we wan...
Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con):
Con
Will the minister give way?
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
I am almost finished.We are not just listening to young people, but hearing them loud and clear and acting on their concerns.Presiding Officer, I am disappoi...
Irene McGugan (North-East Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
From the outset, I say that we welcome the review and its recommendations. It can only be good that the issue is being debated and addressed at a national le...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con):
Con
I apologise to the minister and to Irene McGugan for missing part of their speeches, although I explained my absence to them beforehand.The report of the chi...
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
Does the member care to explain the comments that were attributed to Tory spokespersons yesterday? They did not welcome the funding that was announced to sup...
Bill Aitken:
Con
I personally did not issue that release. In any event, the obvious sense of that is that resources are finite, so such resources as are made available must h...
Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab):
Lab
Does Mr Aitken agree that cases involving older young people who are in their teenage years can be quite complex, in that the grounds for referral will often...
Bill Aitken:
Con
I disagree in part with Mr Barrie's original premise. I agree that it quite frequently happens that younger offenders can offend because they have been offen...
Ian Jenkins (Tweeddale, Ettrick and Lauderdale) (LD):
LD
I start by welcoming the various and wide-ranging announcements that the minister has made today. Child protection issues almost always come to public attent...
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
SNP
We have until 16:38 for open debate. Seven members have requested to speak, which means speeches of four minutes, although I will accept extra time for inter...
Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab):
Lab
It is now almost six years since the Children (Scotland) Act 1995 came into force, which totally updated our child protection system from the one laid out in...
Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale) (SNP):
SNP
I will talk mainly about social work, because my experience of that is twofold. My wife is a social worker from the days when such a thing as Edinburgh Corpo...
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
Does the member accept that the forthcoming summit, which will bring together all the agencies that are involved, is designed to deal with some of the recomm...
Alasdair Morgan:
SNP
I hope that the summit will do that. The recommendations will need to be examined hard, because if they are taken as they are, they will increase bureaucracy...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con):
Con
As the debate is important and concerns a vital subject, it is depressing that the benches are so empty. Perhaps yesterday's excitement was too much for memb...
Cathy Jamieson:
Lab
The member's colleague, Bill Aitken, has already disassociated himself from the remarks that were made by whoever issued his party's press release yesterday....
Murdo Fraser:
Con
My colleague Bill Aitken has just confirmed to me that he disassociates himself from the remarks that were made. I think that it was my colleague Brian Monte...
Scott Barrie:
Lab
Will the member give way?
Murdo Fraser:
Con
No, I am in my last minute and wish to make another point.Mr Barrie will be pleased to hear that I wish to congratulate the Executive on one particular aspec...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr Murray Tosh):
Con
You certainly are.
Murdo Fraser:
Con
I will just conclude with one final point.
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
No, there really is no time for that. I think that you have had your cut. I would be obliged if you would take your seat so that I can move on to Jackie Bail...
Murdo Fraser:
Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer.
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab):
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I am sure that that will come as a relief to other members.
The Deputy Presiding Officer:
Con
That comment was not entirely helpful.
Jackie Baillie:
Lab
I always want to be helpful. Let me return to the substance of my speech."It's everyone's job to make sure I'm alright" is not just the title of the review, ...
Colin Campbell (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
This is a topic of huge concern to every human being in the country. The fact that any child suffers physical or mental abuse, either deliberately or acciden...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
I welcome the steps that the Executive has taken to try to deal better with the problem of child protection. I shall try not to rehash some of the excellent ...