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Chamber

Plenary, 13 Mar 2002

13 Mar 2002 · S1 · Plenary
Item of business
Legal Aid Inquiry
I am grateful for that. I hope that, in this speech, I hit on the correct four.

I have limited time today, but I want to highlight some of the central recommendations. Richard Simpson will no doubt be happy to respond, either today or later, to other issues that members raise in the debate.

Before I talk about the report, it might be helpful to set the debate in a wider context. It is worth recalling that, despite the acknowledged difficulties, Scotland has a generous legal aid system. Indeed, it has one of the most generous systems in Europe. Last year, help was given to nearly 330,000 people through advice and assistance schemes, 14,000 people through civil legal aid and 75,000 through criminal legal aid.

Not only is the scope of our system wide but, at £25 a year for everyone in Scotland, the cost of legal aid is substantial. Our system has evolved considerably over recent years, so I accept that it is complex. I admit that it is not without its problems. The Executive is committed to improving the way in which the legal aid system operates and to improving access to justice for those who need it most. However, although we must seek to do better, we must not forget that our system already does pretty well by those who need it.

The committee's recommendations seem to fall into four main categories: those on which we have already taken action; those on which we may be able to act soon; those on which further work and reflection and, in some cases, primary legislation is required; and those on which I cannot in all honesty agree with the committee. I am pleased to say that there are relatively few recommendations in the final category.

In the first category, I draw attention to the range of issues on which we have already acted. We have already agreed to a new regime for dealing with urgent legal aid, which will mean that people no longer need to pay substantial sums up front to their solicitor. We have already found extra money to allow most people to make contributions over 20 months instead of 10 or 15 months. We have also uprated the income eligibility levels both for advice and for civil legal aid. We have made legal aid available for employment tribunals. We have agreed to make civil legal aid available for cases that are dealt with by social security commissioners and VAT tribunals. Those areas represent a significant step forward.

In the second category, I will mention four points on which we may be able to act soon. First, as Christine Grahame said, there will be a change to the capital eligibility limits. Because the limits for advice and assistance and for civil legal aid have not been changed for many years, their value has been eroded by inflation. I accept that and, today, I intend to put it right. I am pleased to be able to announce that I intend to increase the capital limit for advice and assistance, which was last uprated in 1992, from £1,000 to £1,300. I also intend to increase the lower capital limit for civil legal aid, which, as Christine Grahame pointed out, was last uprated in 1983—the year in which I went to the House of Commons—from £3,000 to £6,000, and to increase the upper limit from £8,500 to £10,000. The old lady with £9,000 would come into that range under the new proposals. I will bring forward regulations as soon as possible and I will be seeking additional resources in the forthcoming spending round to support those changes.

Those increases, which are all greater than inflation, will make a real impact on the number of people who qualify for legal aid and on the number of people who are exempted from contributing towards the cost. They will make a significant contribution to improving access to justice. For the future, I want to avoid allowing the limits to fall so badly behind again, so I have asked my officials to examine streamlined mechanisms to ensure that limits are uprated on a regular basis as a matter of course.

Matrimonial cases make up the greatest part of civil legal aid actions and we want to consider the amount of winnings—if we may call them that—that are exempt from any clawback by the Scottish Legal Aid Board. That amount has remained at £2,500 since 1987. I propose to increase the amount to £4,200—once again, an increase that is greater than inflation. However, I should stress that, although I see such cases as deserving particular support, I do not intend to extend such special treatment to other types of case.

On the arrangements for the Scottish Legal Aid Board to give sanction for expert witnesses in criminal cases—a technical point, but one that the committee rightly highlighted—I intend to introduce an amendment to the regulations to give the board greater flexibility so that cases can proceed more quickly and smoothly.

I will now talk about the issues that require further thought, further work or further primary legislation—or, indeed, all three. I will highlight three issues. I have sympathy with the difficulties that individuals can encounter when they try to raise a group action. I have asked my officials to discuss with the Scottish Legal Aid Board how those difficulties might be addressed and I will come back to the committee with my conclusions in due course.

I am attracted, in principle, to the idea of introducing a new, tapering system of contributions that would allow eligibility to be extended further up the income scale when the cost of legal action is too great for those on middle incomes to undertake. A number of complex issues must be considered and I have instructed my officials to examine them with the board and to report back to me as soon as possible. As the motion indicates, the committee will return to these issues; Richard Simpson and I will certainly return to the committee to discuss our progress and conclusions.

The committee also recommended that the Executive should look at the impact of changing the rules on recovery of expenses for successful opponents in legal aid cases. I want to go further than that. I am persuaded that the current test of severe hardship is too high a hurdle. I therefore intend to find a suitable opportunity to reduce the test to one of hardship. That will ease the burden on a considerable number of successful opponents. However, I warn that the legislative programme is already full and that I do not expect there to be room for primary legislation this side of the next election.

I should also mention fees for civil legal aid work. I am conscious of the case for an increase in fees, even though I do not accept the allegation that there is a shortage of practitioners. We are still awaiting proposals from the Law Society of Scotland. I undertake to consider those proposals carefully when I receive them. However, to pick up on a fair point that Christine Grahame made, let me emphasise that I will be prepared to countenance a substantial increase in fees only if it is accompanied by the introduction of robust quality assurance arrangements and real improvements in the efficiency of the system. Let us be clear: there are not unlimited resources. Increasing fees for solicitors limits our scope for other changes to benefit clients.

Lastly, and briefly, I will talk about issues on which I cannot agree with the committee. I do not think that there is a good case for legal aid to be extended to small claims cases and I see no reason to review the very short list of proceedings that are exempted from civil legal aid.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr George Reid): SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S1M-2868, in the name of Christine Grahame, on behalf of the Justice 1 Committee, on the committee's eighth r...
Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) (SNP): SNP
Somehow, I do not think that the debate will be oversubscribed, Presiding Officer.Before I address the detail of the Justice 1 Committee's report, I should s...
Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): Con
I recognise that—
Christine Grahame: SNP
Is Mr Gallie going to tell us the end of the story?
Phil Gallie: Con
Sorry, I did not hear that.Christine Grahame is discussing legal aid and the problem of identifying the expertise of solicitors. Would not anyone who is not ...
Christine Grahame: SNP
The problem is the same, but I said that the woman in my example had to find a firm that had two specialities—reparation and legal aid. The category has to b...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: SNP
Let us try Mr Wallace.
The Deputy First Minister and Minister for Justice (Mr Jim Wallace): LD
I thank the committee and all who contributed to its work for the efforts that were made in producing an important report. Indeed, I thank Christine Grahame ...
Christine Grahame: SNP
Let me make it clear that the committee's letter sets out the four most important issues that should be considered straight away. We will then address the ot...
Mr Wallace: LD
I am grateful for that. I hope that, in this speech, I hit on the correct four.I have limited time today, but I want to highlight some of the central recomme...
Christine Grahame: SNP
The minister's position is reasonable if the limit for small claims stays at £750. However, would he take a different view if the limit went up to £1,500, wh...
Mr Wallace: LD
The whole point of the small claims system is that it is intended to be relatively straightforward. Once we enter the realms of legal aid, the process become...
Roseanna Cunningham (Perth) (SNP): SNP
The report is fairly comprehensive and the minister detailed a long list of things that he is taking on as a result of it. It is almost impossible to cover e...
Lord James Douglas-Hamilton (Lothians) (Con): Con
I thank the Deputy First Minister for his constructive response this afternoon, but I ask him and his colleague whether they can confirm that all those propo...
Maureen Macmillan (Highlands and Islands) (Lab): Lab
When we first began considering access to justice in the old Justice and Home Affairs Committee, we looked at gaps in the law and omissions that discriminate...
The Deputy Presiding Officer: SNP
We move to open debate. The debate is currently running about 10 minutes light, so speakers can have up to six or even seven minutes if they so wish. I ask P...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow Kelvin) (Lab): Lab
You gave me a fright there, Presiding Officer, but I am sure that I will think of something to say.I believe that we have an important piece of work in front...
Mr Gil Paterson (Central Scotland) (SNP): SNP
I thank the Justice 1 Committee for its important work on changes to civil legal aid. It goes without saying that the work is particularly important for wome...
Christine Grahame: SNP
Eligibility.
Mr Paterson: SNP
Thanks very much, teacher.
Christine Grahame: SNP
It is late in the day.
Mr Paterson: SNP
I welcome the recommendation to change eligibility criteria by removing inconsistencies in benefit treatment. I am particularly pleased that the minister is ...
Phil Gallie (South of Scotland) (Con): Con
I congratulate the committee on the fact that the minister seems to have acted on some of its recommendations already. All members of the committee must feel...
Gordon Jackson (Glasgow Govan) (Lab): Lab
Will the member give way?
Phil Gallie: Con
Yes, but I am on a tight time scale.
Gordon Jackson: Lab
Mr Gallie has always believed in giving legal aid to small businesses, but has he worked out how much that would cost? Have we an indication of what it would...
Phil Gallie: Con
I accept that, but my point concerns very small businesses. I commend the Justice 1 Committee for asking the Executive to perform a cost analysis along the l...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Mr Murray Tosh): Con
I thank Mr Gallie for his single-handed effort to get us back to the timetable. We are still about five minutes light, so I will be reasonably flexible as we...
Donald Gorrie (Central Scotland) (LD): LD
The work for this report was done before I became a member of the Justice 1 Committee, so I can praise the report dispassionately. It raises a lot of importa...
Bill Aitken (Glasgow) (Con): Con
As I have never served on the Justice 1 Committee or been involved in the issue before, I can, with some detachment, congratulate the committee on a job well...